ManFlex

No, we do three full days of recurrent ground school in FLL. For those of us based elsewhere, that usually means a 5 day trip for this (read:$$).

ghilis101

Weve had AQP at my airline (supplemental 121) for almost 3 years now.


-we do recurrent every 12 months (other airlines may do every 9 mos), unless you fail then you get put on a special program to come back sooner.
-1 day of in-house recurrent GS, followed by 4 sim sessions. The rest of ground school is self study at home, 2x a year.
-first 2 sims (FL-first look and MT-maneuvers training) are real training, geared towards learning. lots of non-ils approaches, managed and unmanaged, and QRH stuff.
-3rd sim (Maneuvers Validation) is like a short PC. Its got your v1 cuts and such. Mostly train to proficiency, you can redo 2 maneuvers.
-4th sim (LOE) follows an open book oral, and its like a LOFT, but this is where you can get a real bust that will follow you around forever. The scenarios range from easy to very challenging.

Everything is graded on a scale of 1 thru 4. 1 is a failure and has to be corrected, a 4 is perfect. Most people get 2's and 3's. Its a little disheartening when you get your first gradesheet

I like the concept of AQP, but I personally would like to do a v1 cut in the sim more than once a year just to keep from getting lazy. I think 9 months is reasonable though.

MrMustache

CP has AQP

After your initial training (AQP) you have:

- 6 month training, which is one day. Completed in a procedures training then 1 hour each pilot in the sim. V1 cuts, non precision, etc.

- 9 month recurrent ground, 1 day with about 18 hrs of home study the month prior.

- 12 month, which is 2 days. Day 1 consists of an oral and manuevers validation ( like your typical PC, not really a jeopardy event but not trainng either). Day 2 is an LOE, which is what you could bust and is similar to a LOFT.

Initial is similar to the 12 month once you get through sims, atleast in regards to how you pass training.

ShyGuy

Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for!

Question about MV. Is this like the current PC system, in someone fails a certain portion of the ride, the ride is stopped with retraining, and then retaken and passed which then counts as a TTP for that event?

Question about LOE/LOFT. It sounds like in both cases above this is the main jeopardy event. Are scenarios reflective of real life incidents/events the particular airline has had? Or real life incidents of the same type airplane that another airline experienced? Or is it random things? Can you provide an example of a LOE scenario?

Jetspeed

My old airline (QX) would look at FOQA data and gear the LOFT scenario towards that. The last LOFT scenario I had was SAN-MRY. Take off low vis, enroute there was a caution for oil temp. Pull out the checklist, says to monitor the temp. A few minutes later the temp shoots up, run the checklist and shut the engine down. Next figure out where to divert. End up going to LAX which was the best option even though it was CAT 3 (can't remember what the other options where). That was it, pretty straight forward.

ghilis101

MV - each maneuver is graded in succession. If you mess it up, they reset you, and you do it again. Then you move on to the next thing. If you mess it up twice, I think they stop the MV entirely, and the ride is over, and you do a remediation sim. New for AQP, you can fail as the PNF/PM, if you don't do your nonflying duties correctly. You can also fail as a crew, for CRM.

LOE - the scenarios range in difficulty, from things that have been pulled from FOQA, to things the FAA wants to emphasize, to things that you wonder where they came up with the scenario. Some LOE scenarios have compound problems. Meaning you start with a MEL/deferral, you get a subsequent failure of the backup system or another system enroute, and now youre down to min equipment, focing you to decide whether to continue, divert, or air turnback. Our LOE scenarios are guarded so I cant specifically mention them, but the concept should be the same at other airlines. If you fail something on the LOE, you can go back and repeat it at the end, time permitting. If you run out of time, you fail the LOE.

757HI

We've had AQP for several years.

-One sim a year (12 months)
-Quarterly online courses.

AQP, the cheapest training money can buy!

AQP is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, and there is no such thing as busting a check ride. All whom come, shall pass…

Train to proficiency, and the proficiency requirement is ridiculously low.

The annual sim is based on one session of maneuvers; V-1 cuts, approaches, etc. the next session (considered the "check ride" but it really isn't) is a like a line check with some "event". It could be a fire, engine failure, or something stupid like a medical divert.

My last sim was a medical diversion….. Jesus, really??? What a waste of time.

AQP is about checking boxes as fast as possible on day 1, then as easy as a ride on day two to make sure no one needs any extra sim time (costs $$$).

Annual training is now simply a cost item, and has no bearing on any real training anymore.

Oh, but any crash that may come will quickly be blamed on pilot error, don't worry about that!!!

ghilis101

Its definitely cost driven. But AQP should also be a good thing for pilots, hence the "Advanced Qualification" part. Basically, it gives us all credit for being experienced and good at what we do. It collects trends of what people are messing up on the line, and turns them into training scenarios. Your medical diversion scenario probably is a LOE because pilots on the line messed it up for than a few times in real life (yes you can mess up a medical diversion).

AQP is an evolving program, its supposed to get better with time. I don't need to do steep turns every time I go back to the sim, but I would like to do managed and unmanaged non-ils approaches since most of us rarely do those on the line. That's what AQP allows us to do.

theHub

Piedmont was the first regional to became AQP. You could and can very much FAIL an AQP training event.

Blackwing

I'm new to this game, what are these?