Originally Posted by cactusmike

Actually, the drama there is a direct result of a failed in house union that is completely ignorant to any idea or proposal that does not fit in with their preconcieved mindset. USAPA exists solely to benefit the east side of US Airways. They have a federal injunction in place for a poorly timed, ill conceived work disruption. They have no idea on how to negotiate, they have no idea when or how to excercise leverage in negotiating with management. In short, they are everything wrong on how a union operates.

The APA, while an in house union themselves, has decades of experience in operating. Their pilots saw the fallacy of having "burn the house down" pilots in charge of the union and they have since elected pilots who have negotiated a merger and minimized the disruption of a CH 11 concessionary contract. They have institutional memory and a strong group of pilot volunteers, evidently.

ALPA will give jetBlue pilots the same ability to gain a collective bargaining agreement without reinventing the wheel like USAPA tried and failed to do. Having a little adult supervision can be a good thing. You don't want idiots hijacking the union and driving the ship on to the rocks. You also don't want to go on without a CBA. You need the protections a real contract can give you. And it's up to management to decide if they want to play games or cooperate on getting a work agreement in place. Under status quo of the RLA they can't change your present agreement while you negotiate a new one. They can change your deal today, they can't under ALPA.

Originally Posted by Mesabah

No agenda, I just believe the hierarchy is:
1: strong union = good
2. no union = bad to Okay - depends on management
3. weak union = abysmal - works with management to screw you and weaken labor law.

Originally Posted by alvrb211

Weak union?

What could possibly be weaker than a Direct Relationship in which MGMT can, and DOES cut your benefits and pay frequently without your input?


T

Originally Posted by Mesabah

What were the dates, and pay cut amounts JetBlue management gave you guys?

A weak union sets industry precedence that eats away at the union profession, not just airline pilots. If you guys give away contract protections under ALPA, it sets industry precedent, and other carriers will move to match. This is what happened over the last decade, where legacy pilots saw 50% pay cuts, and massive erosion of their scope, which was protected under labor law, at their UNION carrier.

ALPA will not insulate you from management, it will only soften the blow for the protected class, the most senior pilots, at the expense of the junior guys. Under the DR, they try and spread the pain to everyone.

Originally Posted by Mesabah

What were the dates, and pay cut amounts JetBlue management gave you guys?

A weak union sets industry precedence that eats away at the union profession, not just airline pilots. If you guys give away contract protections under ALPA, it sets industry precedent, and other carriers will move to match. This is what happened over the last decade, where legacy pilots saw 50% pay cuts, and massive erosion of their scope, which was protected under labor law, at their UNION carrier.

ALPA will not insulate you from management, it will only soften the blow for the protected class, the most senior pilots, at the expense of the junior guys. Under the DR, they try and spread the pain to everyone.

Originally Posted by Climbto450

There has never been a pay cut per say at JB in fact there have been raises majority of the 14 years of our existence.. Actually the raise on Jan1st of this year was PSIA +2%. However, we have had actions that have resulted in total compensation cuts (insurance changes, premium pay triggers & peer set adjustments to the down side of the industry) for some if not most of our pilots. Not to mention a laundry list of changes via email that have been executed poorly in recent years.

Originally Posted by cmesoar

. National buddied up with senior members at UAL and the cost was hundreds of furloughs.

Originally Posted by cmesoar

Good Post. ALPA is not going to save us and help all our problems. The senior members will love Alpa. National buddied up with senior members at UAL and the cost was hundreds of furloughs. ALPA is an association and when we get them on property, we need a system that will work for JBALPA. NOT ALPA NATIONAL. My vote is in, but if we don't use our current silo system for proper seniority representation, we will fail. Or at least the junior members is suffer. That is not a union if they suffer.. That is a club/ association.

Originally Posted by pilotpayne

Silo system....nothing else.

We have one chance at this and I don't want a bunch of senior bus guys from FLL running everything.
I voted for ALPA but I really hope we keep the silo system.

Originally Posted by txbusdriver

A good majority of those "raises" have been more like a shell game. Give a raise cut health insurance. Give a raise take premium pay away. Give a raise take 13:30's away. Give a raise, cut the hotel budget. The joke around JetBlue for a long time has been I can't afford another raise. Yes my W-2's have slowly increased but they have been relatively flat over the past few years. A kiss is never just a kiss at JetBlue.