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Old 03-20-2014, 05:47 AM   #21  
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SWA and AT- Again, ALPA has very little leverage except with the law. In the end, AT pilots VOTED in that agreement either in fear or happiness depending on your take. AT ALPA could have been more militant and still be in court over the situation just as an inhouse union could have. With no union, there would have been EVEN LESS leverage in negotiations with SWA/SWAPA. It turns out in that case that it was 2 vs 1.

Agree that you pay for ALPA's national presence, but in the end they are the only voice of airline labor with any credibility to combat some of the real threats to our long term careers.
It is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that, while ALPA represented AT during the merger, AT was still operating under their old contract developed by NPA which lacked critical language forcing full integration of operations. This is how SWA would have been able to keep the lists separate, siphon of AT planes and let the AT pilots go when they didn't need them. (All theoretical, of course.)
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:47 AM   #22  
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Ok, lets take a look at this, briefly.

Management says that they are out to protect us and grow the company as a stand-alone entity. With the lucrative Boston and New York markets, plus our relative small market share, jetblue is going to be part of an merger or acquisition event. Theres a plus for CBA & Union.

In the event of a transactional event, I think that Mckaskill-Bond applies, the acquiring company needs our pilots and jets and we all keep out jobs. There's a plus for the PVC and DR. We keep our 1.9%

The negotiation process for the CBA is going to be horrendous. We all know this. Plus for DR & PVC.

The floater items that keep the scales of justice swaying back and forth are:

-"Code Shares" with Hawaiian (who sells tickets to JFK on Virgin America)
-Health Care Disaster
-Additions to Dependability Clauses and other items to our FOM (No PVC Collab)
-Changing of the "peer set" during last PEA negoatiation

The knowns that ALPA sucks:
-TWA- AA merger
-Legacy bankruptcies and treatment of "bretheren"
-SWA and AirTran M&A event
-1.9% of my 13% PEA raise for Lee's Steak Dinners

Fins, I value your opinions and I would vote for you on the MEC if you so chose to run. I have to say that the majority of people I interact with are pro-ALPA. Keep me penciled in as a "fence sitter".

-Bubs

There's no such thing as fence sitters anymore, you are a no! You have been since before you got hired and you still are!

Listen newbie, a CBA will only take as long to negotiate as the company wants it to. Everyone knows what the going rate is for an A320 Capt in today's industry, everyone knows what "average" benefits and retirement are in today's industry. This company has always been used to doing whatever they want whenever they want with no pilot input. Well, those days are almost over! As soon as they realize they need relief in some area (scheduling, training, etc.) we will get our CBA. It may take a year or two, but I don't believe more than that.

Face it dude, ALPA is coming whether you vote YES or not. You can either choose to sit at the grown up table and have a say in future of your career, or you can trust people like Maruster and Martin to do the right thing. Either way, in 60 days you'll be writing that dues check to ALPA.
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:55 AM   #23  
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It is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that, while ALPA represented AT during the merger, AT was still operating under their old contract developed by NPA which lacked critical language forcing full integration of operations. This is how SWA would have been able to keep the lists separate, siphon of AT planes and let the AT pilots go when they didn't need them. (All theoretical, of course.)
Fins,
I honestly don't know, because in the end it didn't matter.... AT pilots VOTED yes on the deal in front of them, so as soon as that happened, it's done, complete. Bottom line was that SWA and SWAPA teamed up to make sure the AT group felt threatened enough to get it done. If they voted no would the company have done more integration, or would they have broken them up? No one knows for sure because they voted yes. I'm sure with ALPA's support they were at least able to get some experienced legal counsel and accounting experts to evaluate SWA/PA's intent. Is Bubs making the case that without ALPAS resources the AT pilot group would have been in a better position to deal with SWA/PA? Would JB as a un-unioned carrier do better negotiating with SWA/PA in the same instance?
Heck, some people say that Frontier's union integration stance is what kept SWA/PA away from that deal a few years ago.
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:27 AM   #24  
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Fins,
I honestly don't know, because in the end it didn't matter.... AT pilots VOTED yes on the deal in front of them, so as soon as that happened, it's done, complete. Bottom line was that SWA and SWAPA teamed up to make sure the AT group felt threatened enough to get it done. If they voted no would the company have done more integration, or would they have broken them up? No one knows for sure because they voted yes. I'm sure with ALPA's support they were at least able to get some experienced legal counsel and accounting experts to evaluate SWA/PA's intent. Is Bubs making the case that without ALPAS resources the AT pilot group would have been in a better position to deal with SWA/PA? Would JB as a un-unioned carrier do better negotiating with SWA/PA in the same instance?
Heck, some people say that Frontier's union integration stance is what kept SWA/PA away from that deal a few years ago.
Thanks for the response. I'm certainly not pointing fingers at anyone for anything. Just making trying to make the point, as I believe you are, that we will be much better off with a CBA and representation than trying to do it on our own. Hopefully Bubs will realize that.

"It's just business" and, like it or not, that is the way the airline business operates. The money we have lost over the years in the form of terrible healthcare, inadequate rigs and total sub-average compensation package has cost us a lot more than 1.9%.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:32 AM   #25  
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Agree. 1.9% to an org who's stated purpose is to help you. 38% to gov who are supposed to help.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:37 AM   #26  
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P-3 Bubs - Thanks for the kinds words. I wanted nothing to do with any of this stuff when I came to jetblue. I'm a military/republican type after all. Unfortunately, the more I pay attention to what the company tells us versus what is reality, and also as I learn more about this industry, I learn that we really need a better way of protecting ourselves whether from the company or industry forces.
At my company one of CP's recently used the US Armed Forces to elicit a certain behavior from the pilot group... that somehow our pride in supporting the troops could be implemented in our Pride in the Air Line Pilot Profession.... I thought it disingenuous, because the the company doesn't share that pride.... it only cares about the dollar...
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:46 AM   #27  
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I've heard it said, "All I ever got from ALPA was a free magazine." That is such b.s. it drives me nuts. ALPA is responsible for or contributed to (just a short list):

- Precision and full approach lighting systems
- Grooving and friction treatment for runways
- REILs and markings
- Runway electronic or vertical guidance
- Radar approach coverage for all airport terminal areas.
- Runway distance remaining markers.
- Procedures for use of CVR tapes or transcripts during court proceedings.
- RVSM
- Improved taxiway signage to help prevent runway incursions.
- Volcanic ash avoidance
- KCM

That is just a short list. ALL airline pilots, include JetBlue pilots, benefit from these things. Maybe, in addition to availing ourselves to ALPA's services, we should also start contributing to our profession.
Great post, man.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:50 AM   #28  
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Don't let them make another celebratory video. Watch JetBlue gloat in our defeat last time.....
Preserving JetBlue's Flight Plan: Retaining a Direct Relationship with Pilots - YouTube
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:54 AM   #29  
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Don't let them make another celebratory video. Watch JetBlue gloat in our defeat last time.....
Preserving JetBlue's Flight Plan: Retaining a Direct Relationship with Pilots - YouTube
Sweet, baby Jesus.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:31 AM   #30  
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What the heck is the reporter pointing at them...Geiger counter? Breathalyzer? Label Maker? They make smaller recording devices these days.
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