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Old 03-21-2014, 06:44 AM   #41  
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Just ask Dave to give up his contract with the BOD....
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Old 03-21-2014, 06:51 AM   #42  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
He states that JB pilots will get a 20 percent raise over the next 3 years. Is that correct?
Yes and no. 13%, 3.5% and 3.5% (0% for first year pilots). But premium pay removed, so I actually got a 10% pay CUT.

Add to that guys paying $10-50k out of pocket for health care plans barely above basic ACA coverage and it's dishonest at best.

Oh, and I asked you about DAL reserve rules on another page. JB's? All 18 days SCR unless you're senior enough to get Mon-Thu rotation, in which case you might be lucky to get 1 it 2 LCR in a month.
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Old 03-21-2014, 07:38 AM   #43  
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He states that JB pilots will get a 20 percent raise over the next 3 years. Is that correct?
The correct part is that base rates will increase by a total of 20% over the next three years. As with everything the company puts out, it's what they don't say that is more telling.

- We used to get premium pay for credit over 70 hours, then it was over 78 hours, now it is completely gone.
- The base rates they use are still below industry average even though we were told years ago that they "wanted to pay us industry average". Then industry average became "industry competitive".
- The base rates were calculated using a peer set that was unilaterally changed by the company (without concurrence of our PVC) which blatantly violates the FSM governance procedures that they signed. Our PVC is now in the process of pursuing mediation for the violation.
- We are still behind in retirement and profit sharing, have horrible health insurance, sub-standard sick/vacation accrual. These are all verifiable numbers - not rumor.

I could go on. Dave is a snake in the grass. He'll give you his best smile while he's stealing from your back pocket. I believe he'll be gone after the vote passes. Don't feel too bad for him. While our compensation and benefits are sub-average, his are on par with that of CEOs of some of the largest companies in the country. I think his golden parachute will protect him just fine.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:06 AM   #44  
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I'll put it this way... with my "raise" I need to credit 91 hours to break even with last year.

Average line has been running in the upper 80's so that same line before the raise was worth approximately 6% less with premium. Basically put, the only way you could possibly see a 13% raise would be on reserve and not break guarantee or drop down to min schedule.

For me, under no scenario do I ever see more than a 3% increase over last year with premium (and that's at 95 hours to do it.)
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:27 AM   #45  
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So to give you guys an idea of what is happening, let me explain my experience. I was invited to one of these dinners, (been here about 1.5 yr) and when the chief called at first I declined. I am pretty passionate about how I feel the direction of things are heading here, and quite frankly I am frightened at how it will go if ALPA doesn't go through. Then I thought, well, if I go, I could maybe ask some questions that were thought provoking for newbies or fence sitters, and maybe open their eyes to to some issues. They certainly aren't going to change my mind, plus I'll get a free dinner out of it.

I go to the dinner with questions in tow, and ALL of the execs are there. Interestingly, there are line captains there too. Obviously, they aren't new guys, so how did they get an invite to this?!?! OHHHH...they're anti-union...well, no wonder they're there, and getting dinner paid for for them and their wives.

So after dinner, DB opens Q&A, and it was absurd. These captains just throwing up softball questions. Whats the status of wifi on a/c, are we looking at changing iPad so we can bid on tablet, where are we flying to next, etc. You guys know what I'm talking about. Anyway, they are about to close things up and I start with my questions, such as the fact that they are touting 401k as now being in the PEA and they're contractually obligated to it yet it states they can amend or terminate the plan with "significant financial losses", but that is never defined, so they really are not contractually obligated to anything. I also asked about the unilateral change to the peer set and explained to them exactly how the DR has worked for me (it hasn't).

I got the answers I totally expected, and before I could ask any more they closed up the Q&A. But hopefully, one of the other new guys there (there wasn't a huge turnout) can see through the responses and realize we need protections and we need to negotiate for ourselves. Oh well, dinner was good.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:43 AM   #46  
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Originally Posted by expectholding View Post
So to give you guys an idea of what is happening, let me explain my experience. I was invited to one of these dinners, (been here about 1.5 yr) and when the chief called at first I declined. I am pretty passionate about how I feel the direction of things are heading here, and quite frankly I am frightened at how it will go if ALPA doesn't go through. Then I thought, well, if I go, I could maybe ask some questions that were thought provoking for newbies or fence sitters, and maybe open their eyes to to some issues. They certainly aren't going to change my mind, plus I'll get a free dinner out of it.

I go to the dinner with questions in tow, and ALL of the execs are there. Interestingly, there are line captains there too. Obviously, they aren't new guys, so how did they get an invite to this?!?! OHHHH...they're anti-union...well, no wonder they're there, and getting dinner paid for for them and their wives.

So after dinner, DB opens Q&A, and it was absurd. These captains just throwing up softball questions. Whats the status of wifi on a/c, are we looking at changing iPad so we can bid on tablet, where are we flying to next, etc. You guys know what I'm talking about. Anyway, they are about to close things up and I start with my questions, such as the fact that they are touting 401k as now being in the PEA and they're contractually obligated to it yet it states they can amend or terminate the plan with "significant financial losses", but that is never defined, so they really are not contractually obligated to anything. I also asked about the unilateral change to the peer set and explained to them exactly how the DR has worked for me (it hasn't).

I got the answers I totally expected, and before I could ask any more they closed up the Q&A. But hopefully, one of the other new guys there (there wasn't a huge turnout) can see through the responses and realize we need protections and we need to negotiate for ourselves. Oh well, dinner was good.
Wow. Great work! The junior folks like yourself who quickly see through the BS and explain said BS to others carry a ton of sway. Thanks for doing that.

(I hope you don't mind but I'm going to post this on BP.)
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:30 AM   #47  
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The article that quotes DB, in regards to Norwegian and labor, is concerning. The Norwegian operation is total bull$hit. ALPA is right to have a fit about it and I've seen the Lower cost labor going through customs in FLL. I'm not saying that competition is bad but that's a garbage way to go about it, and DB says he "likes it." Not good.

I agree that a large upper level management shake-up will occur soon. ALPA would be another reason people would leave. That's a level way above the pilot group.

The other thing that probably would have put the brakes on ALPA is a larger pay raise and retaining Premium Pay. It would have cost way less than a union fight and the pain of a CBA process. That would have kept the culture in tact and would have put the health care and union issue to "bed". But they blew it. I do see our leadership and management team, at times of financial and written policy, exhibit and project an attitude of arrogance.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:49 AM   #48  
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Originally Posted by P-3Bubba View Post
The article that quotes DB, in regards to Norwegian and labor, is concerning. The Norwegian operation is total bull$hit. ALPA is right to have a fit about it and I've seen the Lower cost labor going through customs in FLL. I'm not saying that competition is bad but that's a garbage way to go about it, and DB says he "likes it." Not good.

I agree that a large upper level management shake-up will occur soon. ALPA would be another reason people would leave. That's a level way above the pilot group.

The other thing that probably would have put the brakes on ALPA is a larger pay raise and retaining Premium Pay. It would have cost way less than a union fight and the pain of a CBA process. That would have kept the culture in tact and would have put the health care and union issue to "bed". But they blew it. I do see our leadership and management team, at times of financial and written policy, exhibit and project an attitude of arrogance.
Whooooaaaaaaa....... Is that a sliver of light P3?
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:31 PM   #49  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-3Bubba View Post
The article that quotes DB, in regards to Norwegian and labor, is concerning. The Norwegian operation is total bull$hit. ALPA is right to have a fit about it and I've seen the Lower cost labor going through customs in FLL. I'm not saying that competition is bad but that's a garbage way to go about it, and DB says he "likes it." Not good.

I agree that a large upper level management shake-up will occur soon. ALPA would be another reason people would leave. That's a level way above the pilot group.

The other thing that probably would have put the brakes on ALPA is a larger pay raise and retaining Premium Pay. It would have cost way less than a union fight and the pain of a CBA process. That would have kept the culture in tact and would have put the health care and union issue to "bed". But they blew it. I do see our leadership and management team, at times of financial and written policy, exhibit and project an attitude of arrogance.
Well said. A great example of this arrogance is the quote from our COO along the lines of, "you don't want to negotiate with us, we're great at it, just ask our vendors."
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:13 PM   #50  
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Originally Posted by expectholding View Post
So to give you guys an idea of what is happening, let me explain my experience. I was invited to one of these dinners, (been here about 1.5 yr) and when the chief called at first I declined. I am pretty passionate about how I feel the direction of things are heading here, and quite frankly I am frightened at how it will go if ALPA doesn't go through. Then I thought, well, if I go, I could maybe ask some questions that were thought provoking for newbies or fence sitters, and maybe open their eyes to to some issues. They certainly aren't going to change my mind, plus I'll get a free dinner out of it.

I go to the dinner with questions in tow, and ALL of the execs are there. Interestingly, there are line captains there too. Obviously, they aren't new guys, so how did they get an invite to this?!?! OHHHH...they're anti-union...well, no wonder they're there, and getting dinner paid for for them and their wives.

So after dinner, DB opens Q&A, and it was absurd. These captains just throwing up softball questions. Whats the status of wifi on a/c, are we looking at changing iPad so we can bid on tablet, where are we flying to next, etc. You guys know what I'm talking about. Anyway, they are about to close things up and I start with my questions, such as the fact that they are touting 401k as now being in the PEA and they're contractually obligated to it yet it states they can amend or terminate the plan with "significant financial losses", but that is never defined, so they really are not contractually obligated to anything. I also asked about the unilateral change to the peer set and explained to them exactly how the DR has worked for me (it hasn't).

I got the answers I totally expected, and before I could ask any more they closed up the Q&A. But hopefully, one of the other new guys there (there wasn't a huge turnout) can see through the responses and realize we need protections and we need to negotiate for ourselves. Oh well, dinner was good.
Awsome report.

Now, did any of the "Captains" (BOOB/IPJB/Pro-company/Anti-union types) explain why/how "they" happened to be at a new pilot dinner?

How did the other "new pilots" who attended feel after the soft ball questions, poor answers to your questions and overall spin and lies from the evening?

Thanks

Just my opinion........

FNG
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