Jetblue anti-union tactics
03-22-2014, 02:51 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Originally Posted by RJcursed4life
Good luck fellas. Don't screw this one up!
Unfortunately, While many at JB are good Pilots, they don't understand the business. They are told unions are bad for their career and are naïve enough to believe it.
Time will tell.
T
03-22-2014, 04:18 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by alvrb211
Unfortunately, While many at JB are good Pilots, they don't understand the business. They are told unions are bad for their career and are naïve enough to believe it.
Time will tell.
T
Time will tell.
T
It's not about being adversarial, but if management wants that, then you need protection... if they aren't adversarial, then why not have a voice?
03-22-2014, 05:26 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 1,047
Fair?....
Originally Posted by Fly Faster
Great new email from BlueTruth...very educational!
Credibility Gap….
“Our once substantial cost gap has shrunk by about half since 2008 when we commanded a 20% ex-fuel and profit CASM advantage relative to our network competitors.” (Source: JB-issued Pilot Information and Comparison Guide”
Everywhere we turn lately, Jet Blue Pilots are inundated with ELT’s current favorite buzz words, “cost gap”. Apparently our CASM advantage, or “cost gap” has been steadily shrinking the past several years relative to our Industry Peers.
This is then presented as an excuse for Jet Blue Pilots remaining well-below Peer Set Industry Average in EVERY compensation category; Pay, Retirement, Sick Time, Vacation, Profit Sharing, Work Rules, STD/LTD and Merger Protections.
“Bottom Line, JetBlue gave its Pilots as much as it could afford to give at this time, keeping you competitive with your peers across the airline industry and keeping us competitive in the marketplace.” (Source: jetbluefacts.com faq)
Remember, ELT is selectively referring to Total CASM ex-fuel and profit sharing, not just Pilot costs. Are Pilots really to blame for Jet Blue’s decreasing “cost gap”, as the ELT tries to imply…?
As of 3Q 2012 DOT statistics, Jet Blue CASM advantage had actually extended to 28.74% vs. Peer Average airlines.
Also, the MIT Airline Data Project has produced an excruciatingly thorough and comparative analysis of airline productivity, revenue, traffic count and total cockpit cost advantage/disadvantage, since 1995.
According to the smart folks at MIT, ELT’s Pilot costs assertions simply don’t hold water. Let’s compare Jet Blue Pilot costs vs. some Peer Set Pilot costs, accounting for total compensation (wages and all benefits), averaged from 2010-2012:
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 28% discount compared to American.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 32% discount compared to Delta.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 21% discount compared to United.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 17% discount compared to Southwest.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 19% discount compared to Alaska.
Numbers don’t lie…..
If you are looking for places to cut costs, we suggest you try another department….
Take Management, for example:
Jet Blue managers work for a 15% premium compared to American.
Jet Blue managers work for a 30% premium compared to Delta.
Jet Blue managers work for a 10% premium compared to Southwest.
But Wait, There’s More….
See this:
Our manager to pilot ratio is equal to that of American.
Our manager to pilot ratio is 30% greater than United.
Our manager to pilot ratio is 30% greater than Southwest.
Comprehensive Cost data for 2013 hasn’t yet been published, but during that timeframe, our Peers received pay increases that far exceeded our 2014, 5% PAY CUT from PSIA. Also last year, our Health Care Plan was chopped down to be the WORST coverage in the airline industry. Many Jet Blue Pilots paid up to $14,000 of dollars out-of-pocket for health-related expenses last year that would’ve been covered before our radical Health Care Takeaway. How could Pilots possibly be causing the alleged “cost gap” problem…?
Jet Blue made record profits last year. Where is all the money going…? Don’t even THINK about using Jet Blue Pilots as scapegoats in a discussion about airline costs.
Vote YES…! Make it count….
Be Informed: If you are not directly receiving these BlueTruth Bulletins, please check your spam filters and stay tuned for more. Feel free to forward, download, print and distribute as you please. Also check out:
ALPA Industry News
Home
Get Involved: To sign up to receive BlueTruth Bulletins, or if you are interested in helping, contact us at:
[email protected]
Stay Engaged: Talk to your fellow Pilots about the FAILURES of the DR and our need for National Representation.
Information is presented with every effort to be accurate and factual. BlueTruth opinions are editorial in nature and not intended to injure or defame in any manner. Readers are encouraged to do their own research and draw their own conclusions.
Credibility Gap….
“Our once substantial cost gap has shrunk by about half since 2008 when we commanded a 20% ex-fuel and profit CASM advantage relative to our network competitors.” (Source: JB-issued Pilot Information and Comparison Guide”
Everywhere we turn lately, Jet Blue Pilots are inundated with ELT’s current favorite buzz words, “cost gap”. Apparently our CASM advantage, or “cost gap” has been steadily shrinking the past several years relative to our Industry Peers.
This is then presented as an excuse for Jet Blue Pilots remaining well-below Peer Set Industry Average in EVERY compensation category; Pay, Retirement, Sick Time, Vacation, Profit Sharing, Work Rules, STD/LTD and Merger Protections.
“Bottom Line, JetBlue gave its Pilots as much as it could afford to give at this time, keeping you competitive with your peers across the airline industry and keeping us competitive in the marketplace.” (Source: jetbluefacts.com faq)
Remember, ELT is selectively referring to Total CASM ex-fuel and profit sharing, not just Pilot costs. Are Pilots really to blame for Jet Blue’s decreasing “cost gap”, as the ELT tries to imply…?
As of 3Q 2012 DOT statistics, Jet Blue CASM advantage had actually extended to 28.74% vs. Peer Average airlines.
Also, the MIT Airline Data Project has produced an excruciatingly thorough and comparative analysis of airline productivity, revenue, traffic count and total cockpit cost advantage/disadvantage, since 1995.
According to the smart folks at MIT, ELT’s Pilot costs assertions simply don’t hold water. Let’s compare Jet Blue Pilot costs vs. some Peer Set Pilot costs, accounting for total compensation (wages and all benefits), averaged from 2010-2012:
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 28% discount compared to American.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 32% discount compared to Delta.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 21% discount compared to United.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 17% discount compared to Southwest.
Jet Blue Pilots work for a 19% discount compared to Alaska.
Numbers don’t lie…..
If you are looking for places to cut costs, we suggest you try another department….
Take Management, for example:
Jet Blue managers work for a 15% premium compared to American.
Jet Blue managers work for a 30% premium compared to Delta.
Jet Blue managers work for a 10% premium compared to Southwest.
But Wait, There’s More….
See this:
Our manager to pilot ratio is equal to that of American.
Our manager to pilot ratio is 30% greater than United.
Our manager to pilot ratio is 30% greater than Southwest.
Comprehensive Cost data for 2013 hasn’t yet been published, but during that timeframe, our Peers received pay increases that far exceeded our 2014, 5% PAY CUT from PSIA. Also last year, our Health Care Plan was chopped down to be the WORST coverage in the airline industry. Many Jet Blue Pilots paid up to $14,000 of dollars out-of-pocket for health-related expenses last year that would’ve been covered before our radical Health Care Takeaway. How could Pilots possibly be causing the alleged “cost gap” problem…?
Jet Blue made record profits last year. Where is all the money going…? Don’t even THINK about using Jet Blue Pilots as scapegoats in a discussion about airline costs.
Vote YES…! Make it count….
Be Informed: If you are not directly receiving these BlueTruth Bulletins, please check your spam filters and stay tuned for more. Feel free to forward, download, print and distribute as you please. Also check out:
ALPA Industry News
Home
Get Involved: To sign up to receive BlueTruth Bulletins, or if you are interested in helping, contact us at:
[email protected]
Stay Engaged: Talk to your fellow Pilots about the FAILURES of the DR and our need for National Representation.
Information is presented with every effort to be accurate and factual. BlueTruth opinions are editorial in nature and not intended to injure or defame in any manner. Readers are encouraged to do their own research and draw their own conclusions.
Pot calling the kettle black? I don' t know
UALPAPAE: World?s Largest Pilots? Union Violated Its Own Employees? Labor Rights, Says National Labor Relations Board Judge | Business Wire
03-22-2014, 09:45 PM
#64
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by hyperboy
Lets be fair ALPA MGMT?
Pot calling the kettle black? I don' t know
UALPAPAE: World?s Largest Pilots? Union Violated Its Own Employees? Labor Rights, Says National Labor Relations Board Judge | Business Wire
Pot calling the kettle black? I don' t know
UALPAPAE: World?s Largest Pilots? Union Violated Its Own Employees? Labor Rights, Says National Labor Relations Board Judge | Business Wire
03-23-2014, 04:24 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Passed out in my hammock
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by hyperboy
Lets be fair ALPA MGMT?
Pot calling the kettle black? I don' t know
UALPAPAE: World?s Largest Pilots? Union Violated Its Own Employees? Labor Rights, Says National Labor Relations Board Judge | Business Wire
Pot calling the kettle black? I don' t know
UALPAPAE: World?s Largest Pilots? Union Violated Its Own Employees? Labor Rights, Says National Labor Relations Board Judge | Business Wire
03-23-2014, 04:55 AM
#66
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 97
Since HB is repeating his post everywhere, I'll copy my response from another thread:
I'll play.
To summarize the legalese, ALPA mgmt believed it had bargained to impasse with another union's negotiating team that represents its 168 administrative employees. At that point, it instituted changes to the contracts and layed off 12 employees. The employees, under their CBA, through their Union, protested and the NMB agreed. ALPA must now either appeal or make things right.
First things first. All that stuff in bold above? Doesn't pertain to us at JetBlue.
Meanwhile back home, JetBlue management:
- Changed healthcare without any negotiation, voting, or even signatures on the part of individual pilots, providing the WORST health care coverage of any major airline and costing many pilots thousands to tens of thousands of dollars per year.
- Fired pilots from a 2500-strong employee pool in a process unprotected by any powers nearly as robust as the 168 employees mentioned above enjoy.
- Created its own charter for using the employee representation entity (the PVC) to "negotiate" benefits and work rules, then violated it multiple times.
- Used a Peer Set Industry Average argument to set low wages, then when the PSIA demonstrated reason to raise them, simply changed the peer set. Meanwhile, management invented a different peer set to set their own wages and benefits.
- Payed themselves industry-leading bonuses while paying their employees industry-trailing profit sharing.
I can continue.
There are no appeals.
No NMB access to file a complaint.
No legal team representing our 2,500 pilots to pursue other actions.
As a JetBlue pilot without a union, your only recourse to those management decisions are to complain, hire a lawyer at your own expense (to fight against a PSIA-leading legal team), or swallow the pill. For either option you take (even compliance), you can be put under "progressive guidance" and fired. Or you can leave.
Or, you could vote YES and start working to make things better.
Your choice.
I'll play.
To summarize the legalese, ALPA mgmt believed it had bargained to impasse with another union's negotiating team that represents its 168 administrative employees. At that point, it instituted changes to the contracts and layed off 12 employees. The employees, under their CBA, through their Union, protested and the NMB agreed. ALPA must now either appeal or make things right.
First things first. All that stuff in bold above? Doesn't pertain to us at JetBlue.
Meanwhile back home, JetBlue management:
- Changed healthcare without any negotiation, voting, or even signatures on the part of individual pilots, providing the WORST health care coverage of any major airline and costing many pilots thousands to tens of thousands of dollars per year.
- Fired pilots from a 2500-strong employee pool in a process unprotected by any powers nearly as robust as the 168 employees mentioned above enjoy.
- Created its own charter for using the employee representation entity (the PVC) to "negotiate" benefits and work rules, then violated it multiple times.
- Used a Peer Set Industry Average argument to set low wages, then when the PSIA demonstrated reason to raise them, simply changed the peer set. Meanwhile, management invented a different peer set to set their own wages and benefits.
- Payed themselves industry-leading bonuses while paying their employees industry-trailing profit sharing.
I can continue.
There are no appeals.
No NMB access to file a complaint.
No legal team representing our 2,500 pilots to pursue other actions.
As a JetBlue pilot without a union, your only recourse to those management decisions are to complain, hire a lawyer at your own expense (to fight against a PSIA-leading legal team), or swallow the pill. For either option you take (even compliance), you can be put under "progressive guidance" and fired. Or you can leave.
Or, you could vote YES and start working to make things better.
Your choice.
03-23-2014, 06:30 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Speed tape and prayers
Posts: 376
I think the link just shows that ALPA doesn't practice what they preach. But that being said, the attached article shows what ALPA did to their employees as a business, not what ALPA does to their members as a union. It's almost as if you have to look at them as two different entities. Sometimes ALPA is needed, sometimes it is not, I am not part of this pilot group so I don't have a dog in the fight.
03-23-2014, 06:55 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: P-3C
Posts: 982
Fins,
I'm going to throw this one out there. What really matters to the pilot group is salary, in the form of an hourly wage. A great concern that I have about ALPA is how the CBA will be negotiated to provide the pilot group with better protections and pay at the end of our 3 year PEA?
I see ALPA (MEC) getting strangled by management. It will be a "new" management team, looking to make a name and reputation with the union, that will threaten to reduce protections and benefits that we enjoy in today's PEA. They will drag the process over a long period of time, always promising and never negotiating. There will be mediation and arbitration galore. I foresee a CBA, 3-5 years from today, that affords the pilot group the SAME benefit package and wages that we have today. That's a major loss for the group. Stagnant wages for 3+ years (during negotiation) with the promise of another negotiation, mediation and arbitration immediately to follow the signed CBA.
How do we go forward with ALPA knowing this $hit-storm is going to happen?
I'm asking, not to be a doucher, but to hear some rationale to the question.
I'm going to throw this one out there. What really matters to the pilot group is salary, in the form of an hourly wage. A great concern that I have about ALPA is how the CBA will be negotiated to provide the pilot group with better protections and pay at the end of our 3 year PEA?
I see ALPA (MEC) getting strangled by management. It will be a "new" management team, looking to make a name and reputation with the union, that will threaten to reduce protections and benefits that we enjoy in today's PEA. They will drag the process over a long period of time, always promising and never negotiating. There will be mediation and arbitration galore. I foresee a CBA, 3-5 years from today, that affords the pilot group the SAME benefit package and wages that we have today. That's a major loss for the group. Stagnant wages for 3+ years (during negotiation) with the promise of another negotiation, mediation and arbitration immediately to follow the signed CBA.
How do we go forward with ALPA knowing this $hit-storm is going to happen?
I'm asking, not to be a doucher, but to hear some rationale to the question.
03-23-2014, 07:14 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: FO
Posts: 302
Originally Posted by P-3Bubba
Fins,
I'm going to throw this one out there. What really matters to the pilot group is salary, in the form of an hourly wage. A great concern that I have about ALPA is how the CBA will be negotiated to provide the pilot group with better protections and pay at the end of our 3 year PEA?
I see ALPA (MEC) getting strangled by management. It will be a "new" management team, looking to make a name and reputation with the union, that will threaten to reduce protections and benefits that we enjoy in today's PEA. They will drag the process over a long period of time, always promising and never negotiating. There will be mediation and arbitration galore. I foresee a CBA, 3-5 years from today, that affords the pilot group the SAME benefit package and wages that we have today. That's a major loss for the group. Stagnant wages for 3+ years (during negotiation) with the promise of another negotiation, mediation and arbitration immediately to follow the signed CBA.
How do we go forward with ALPA knowing this $hit-storm is going to happen?
I'm asking, not to be a doucher, but to hear some rationale to the question.
I'm going to throw this one out there. What really matters to the pilot group is salary, in the form of an hourly wage. A great concern that I have about ALPA is how the CBA will be negotiated to provide the pilot group with better protections and pay at the end of our 3 year PEA?
I see ALPA (MEC) getting strangled by management. It will be a "new" management team, looking to make a name and reputation with the union, that will threaten to reduce protections and benefits that we enjoy in today's PEA. They will drag the process over a long period of time, always promising and never negotiating. There will be mediation and arbitration galore. I foresee a CBA, 3-5 years from today, that affords the pilot group the SAME benefit package and wages that we have today. That's a major loss for the group. Stagnant wages for 3+ years (during negotiation) with the promise of another negotiation, mediation and arbitration immediately to follow the signed CBA.
How do we go forward with ALPA knowing this $hit-storm is going to happen?
I'm asking, not to be a doucher, but to hear some rationale to the question.
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