Originally Posted by Mesabah

Wrong, I was mainline management during the bankruptcy era, the legacies went bankrupt because of the pension program. They had to get their employee costs in line with the likes of SWA, and the Jetblue start-up for example.

Scope was sold to try and save the pension, it failed miserably.

Originally Posted by Snarge

So how would the adjustment model work if low cost carriers weren't a factor? Is it ok if a new low cost model comes in and jacks down SWA/JB wages? Why is fuel price ok but wages are always open for negotiation?

UAL went after Canadian pensions too... the canuck govt wouldn't let them... UAL still in Canada?

Originally Posted by P-3Bubba

Could have a union problem at AA/UsAir too. Always union drama.

American responds in pilots union dispute over seniority | American Airlines | American ...

Originally Posted by thruthemurk

Quote:





Originally Posted by P-3Bubba


Could have a union problem at AA/UsAir too. Always union drama.

American responds in pilots union dispute over seniority | American Airlines | American ...




You don't need a union for the drama. Drama comes because this is capitalism. There are tens (sometimes hundreds) of millions of dollars on the table. If you choose to advocate for your piece of the pie without any legal backing you may be able to keep the "drama" minimized. You will most likely have the same effect on the size of your piece.

3A was drama - no unions involved. Health Care rape was drama (unless you have super secret insurance) no unions involved. Two pilots going out the door with no day in court was dramatic - along with someone threatening an entire flight staying inside the door. No union drama involved here either.

Real drama also comes in any merge - with or without a union. Bottom line - every pilot will scratch and claw for every number they can get. Its just business. Going in unarmed denies the reality of the arena.

Originally Posted by thruthemurk

You don't need a union for the drama. Drama comes because this is capitalism. There are tens (sometimes hundreds) of millions of dollars on the table. If you choose to advocate for your piece of the pie without any legal backing you may be able to keep the "drama" minimized. You will most likely have the same effect on the size of your piece.

3A was drama - no unions involved. Health Care rape was drama (unless you have super secret insurance) no unions involved. Two pilots going out the door with no day in court was dramatic - along with someone threatening an entire flight staying inside the door. No union drama involved here either.

Real drama also comes in any merge - with or without a union. Bottom line - every pilot will scratch and claw for every number they can get. Its just business. Going in unarmed denies the reality of the arena.

Originally Posted by Mesabah

Snarge, I'm specifically giving the reason for bankruptcy, if they could have shed those obligations outside of it, they wouldn't have gone the BK route. Furthermore, there was a massive amount of restructuring done at NWA pre-bankruptcy. The fact that NWA was able to freeze some of the pensions was a credit for additional items.

In other words, you are correct that the business model was flawed, but most of that restructuring was done outside of bankruptcy.

Originally Posted by Mesabah

Snarge, I'm specifically giving the reason for bankruptcy, if they could have shed those obligations outside of it, they wouldn't have gone the BK route. Furthermore, there was a massive amount of restructuring done at NWA pre-bankruptcy. The fact that NWA was able to freeze some of the pensions was a credit for additional items.

In other words, you are correct that the business model was flawed, but most of that restructuring was done outside of bankruptcy.

Originally Posted by pilot772

P-3

Still awaiting a response who would you rather have at the table with your career on the line? Dave barger or your own merger committee made up of real pilots with just as much to lose as you?

Originally Posted by P-3Bubba

Today, Uncle Dave B is going to give me $2mil to use during a M&A event. Tomorrow? He could take that away. (5 Docs)

ALPA and Air Tran's MEC got a warm cup of "Shut the he'll up!" from SWAPA's MEC. So, looks like neither one is a good idea.

Who will win in the M&A? Guys have already posted, and Fins supports this too, business. Business will win and $ will drive it.