Eric Stratton

How is the NWA scope clause worded?

How many 50, 70+ and 90+ seat airplanes can others fly in northwest colors?

frozenboxhauler

Not trying to be funny or smarta$$ here but how do the 747 freighters fare here since they have only a hand full of seats? Are they grand-fathered since already on the property?
fbh

HotMamaPilot

I'm not getting what you are saying.

FlyerJosh

My guess is that the scope clause limits the number of flying that other carriers can do based on seat numbers. Since there is no provision that limits the number (high or low) that NWA pilots can fly, there are no considerations for th 747Fs.

For example, if the scope clause states, "All aircraft with greater than 50/70/90/whatever seats will be flown by Northwest pilots with system seniority numbers", then there is nothing that prohibits NWA pilots from flying the 747F.

Likewise, a scope clause that states, "All aircraft with a gross weight greater than 75,000 lbs will be flown by Northwest pilots with system seniority numbers", would prevent other carriers (Mesaba, Pinnacle, Compass, etc) from flying the same 747F.

I don't know what the NWA contract has in terms of scope, but if they are smart they have both bases (seats and weight/equipment types) covered in some form or another.

frozenboxhauler

I hope so.
fbh

ATPFlyer

I just got my ALPA contract and need to go to Law school to figure out how to read the dam thing. Talk about gray areas. ALPA really screwed up big time and gave NWA mgn way to much.We do have seats limits to RJ and how many they can operate which depends on how many mainline narrowbody AC flying we do. Its truely screwed up and will take time to just see how bad it will affect the NWA pilot in the near future. The 747 flying is safe since that is a Widebody which our union protects to the end!!!!

RJ85FO

SMALL JET (SJ) PARAMETERS OF THE NWA / ALPA RESTRUCTURING TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
Highlights of the SJ flying parameters.
1. SJ’s with a certificated seating capacity of 50 seats or less.
• Flown at feeder carriers.
• Unlimited number allowed.
• No limitations on use.
• No limitations on ownership, financing, control, etc.
• No special employment opportunities for furloughed NWA pilots except as provided for the Pinnacle Hiring LOA signed in 2002.

2. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats not owned, leased, financed, or controlled by NWA and operated at Feeder Carriers flying their own aircraft.
• No limitations on use.
• Must have a certificated seating capacity of 86 seats or less, with the exception that if the CRJ-900LR is operated the maximum seating certification level is 90 seats.
• Limited to 55 aircraft. This total includes the existing 35 Mesaba Avros, which these aircraft are intended to replace.
• The 55 limit may be exceeded on a 1:1 basis with the “entering into service” of a 77-110 seat configured SJ to be flown at NWA mainline. The pay rates and work rules for the 77-110 seat mainline SJ are covered later.
• Furloughed NWA pilots are entitled to 5 new hire jobs at the Feeder Carrier operating the aircraft.
• The Feeder Carrier’s furloughed pilots have first right to any jobs at their airline.
• The furloughed NWA pilots employed at the Feeder Carrier would work under the terms of that carrier’s pilot contract.

3. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats which are owned, leased, or financed by NWA and operated at Feeder Carriers.
• All parameters are the same as the previous section, and are included in the 55 aircraft limit, except the employment opportunities for furloughed NWA pilots.
• Furloughed NWA pilots would then be entitled to ½ of the Captain and ½ of the First Officer positions created to operate the aircraft provided by NWA. (Except at Mesaba, where there are already pilots operating 35 Avros, which will be replaced.)
• The furloughed NWA pilots employed at the Feeder Carrier would work under the terms of that carrier’s pilot contract.

4. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats which are flown at a separate wholly owned subsidiary/affiliate of NWA (called “SJet” for now”).
• No limitations on use.
• Must have a certificated seating capacity of 86 seats or less, with the exception that if the CRJ-900LR is operated the maximum seating certification level is 90 seats.
• Limited to 90 total aircraft, which is inclusive of the 55 aircraft limit for the Feeder Carrier flying.
• The 90 aircraft limit may be exceeded on a 1:1 basis with the “entering into service” of a 77-110 seat configured SJ to be flown at NWA mainline.
• Furloughed NWA pilots have the first right to the jobs at “SJet”, but will be on a separate seniority list.
• There would be a “flow up / flow down” between pilots at “SJet” and NWA, including new hire pilots at SJet and NWA. The flow up / down would be subject to metering limitations.
• NWA would be allowed to sell “SJet” after 10 77-110 seat configured Small Jets “are in active service” at NWA mainline.
• If the successor owner of “SJet” does not comply with the Flow Up / Down provisions, the number of 51-76 seat SJs being flown by Feeder Carriers would be required to be reduced to a baseline of 55 aircraft.
• The pay rates and work rules for the “SJet” flying are covered later.
• Note: the trigger for NWA to outsource up to 90 76 seat configured aircraft is dependent upon maintaining the flow up/down process.

5. SJ’s configured with 77-110 seats (118 certificated) would be flown at NWA Mainline at the previously mentioned ratios.
• 1:1 ratio above 55 76 seat SJs operated by Feeder Carriers which are not subsidiaries of NWA.
• 1:1 ratio above 90 76 seat SJs operated by NWA subsidiary “SJet” and other Feeder Carriers.
• Pay rates and work rules for this group are included later and would not include any aircraft with a certified seating capacity greater than 118, or any series of an aircraft type already operated by NWA, such as the 318, B717, etc.

6. A mainline narrowbody fleet threshold (floor) would be established one year after emergence from bankruptcy.

BoilerUP

Did ALPA "screw up big time", or did the pilot group?

Think about it.

Who ratified what?

ryane946

THIS IS TOTAL CRAP!!!

I had no idea the scope clause was so bad!! In my opinion, scope is probably the most important part for the entire industry!!

Why in the hell are they allowed to exceed 55 aircraft. Screw the 1:1 ratio at Northwest mainline. That means Northwest can order 50 A320's, and then place an ADDITIONAL 50 CRJ-900's at regionals. That is B.S.

Compass is allowed up to 90 of these 51-76 seat jets. Whoo! Wait, I thought 55 was enough. WTF? Why 90? Also, they are kept on a separate seniority list as Northwest mainline. Then what was the point of creating this new regional Compass?? I thought these jets would be operated by pilots on the Northwest seniority list. CRAP! That alone would cause me to reject this offer.


This entire agreement looks like ALPA had their head up their @$$ worrying about the Northwest furloughed pilots. Meanwhile, all those pilots have now been offered recall (cause no one wants to go back to Northwest. GEE, I WONDER WHY?!?!?! They screwed Norhtwest pilots. They screwed the entire industry which is their duty to protect.

Northwest pilots should have just struck instead of allowing this crap to be passed. Burn the house down. Northwest is a $hithole. Lowest pay of the legacies. I hope it goes out of business.

This post ruined by day!

BoilerUP

In the future, try not to be such a whiny biach. We don't like the NWA agreement any more than you do, but when your livelihood is on the line, your perspective will change. One more thing...that's nice, wishing tens of thousands of people out of a job. Real nice. Dick.

Sincerely,

Every professional pilot in America