Airlines don't care about double logging PIC anyway. They do, however, care about logging actual. Don't forget to log actual. If you're not getting enough, bring the foggles. Actually, if you get the Captain to wear them when its his/her leg, you can log PIC as safety pilot anyway. #winning

 

Old thread for sure, but I'm looking for info on how to log my time. So, here I am.

I'm also at Delta and when I look under back hours for consolidation on a 3 man crew it looks like an FO logs .72/1 and a there man is about .57/1

 

Well, as long as we're regurgitating the same tired crap in old raised-from-the-dead necrothreads, for those who can't be bothered to use the search engine, let the mountain come to muhammad: Logging Heavy "Augmented" Crew Time

 

Really?!?! Ask for remedial training from the CP. That’ll fix it.

 

The augmented flight can not go without you regardless of where you are sitting. You log the entire thing. If you are logging less than the entire flight, then the flight was illegal for the time period you didn't log. Does the CA cease logging PIC while he's in crew rest? No. You're assigned SIC on an augmented flight regardless of where your duty station happens to be. When on rest, do you log that? Rest is a required duty on the augmented flight, and the rest facility is your duty station for that time period.

 

It doesn't matter which seat you sit in for purposes of "logging" PIC. Many regional FO's have a separate column for their 121 "sole manipulator" PIC. It lets them go do contract work flying the same type of business jet. They meet the FAA requirements to log PIC, and the logged PIC lets them meet insurance minimums for the private contract work. Nobody I ever heard of logged it as actual 121 PIC. Hence why they'd separate it out in their logbook. Where you sit in the plane is a company issue, not an FAA issue.

So, to answer your question, yes, Delta FO's may "log" PIC time for any period where they are sole manipulator. It has zero to do with where they are sitting though. That type of PIC time logged will not count with 121 air carriers; it will count for 135 and 91 work in most cases.

 

Not remotely correct. You're actually suggesting that if a pilot is assigned as SIC on an augmented flight, the flight becomes "illegal" if the SIC chooses not to log it? There is nothing correct about this. Nothing.

The fact is that a pilot may act as a second in command on an augmented flight, never log it at all, and it has no bearing and no effect on the legality of the flight. None. There no no requirement for the SIC to log the time, in order to make the flight legal. The PIC doesn't need to log it, either. The only logging that must take place is that necessary to meet recency of flight legal requirements, and nothing more.

If one is assigned as SIC and logs only a portion of the flight, then it doesn't change the fact that one was assigned, and served as SIC. Logging or not logging has no impact on that flight or duty time. Logging or not logging a portion of a flight does not change the legality of the flight. Where did you come up with a wild idea like that?

 

I'm saying if he thinks he couldn't log it, or if he thinks the regs do not allow him to log it; not if he chose not to on his own. Perhaps that wasn't clear enough. Of course he can log it. If it actually did not count and was not loggable, then it wouldn't be an augmented crew. All of the time counts regardless where he's sitting or what he's doing. Him logging it or not doesn't change the legality of the flight. Not logged is not the same as not loggable.
I re-read it, and while I know what I meant; it isn't what I wrote, so I'll give you that.

The short is, he may log as much or as little of the SIC time as he wishes regardless of where he is sitting.

Now, lets bump it up a notch. May the FO in the right seat LOG PIC on his/her leg as sole manipulator? Not will it count for future 121 upgrade or interviews, but may it be logged. I personally would never do it, but the answer is yes.

 

while you are quoting and referring to some of the regs correctly in a multi crew operation no one is ever sole manipulator of the controls. I’m not sure if this is defined anywhere specific but even as the pilot flying do you not command gear flaps and any guidance changes while AP is disengaged? Therefore the PM is manipulating the controls and in 2 or more pilot ops no one is the sole manipulator.