CAL and Citizens
 

Hello,

I have applied to CAL and was wondering what their policy is regarding hiring green card holders? Right now I am less than a year away from receiving my citizenship.

Thanks,

Get in line. You are behind a ton of actual citizens.

Thanks for that waste of bandwith reply nothotmama. That's the kind of answer I would have expected from flightinfo.com. Not very becoming of a "B767 FO"

Maybe some professional on this board could help answer my question please.

I have had a few friends with only green cards get hired there. All CAL has to do is show that there are not US qualified pilots at that given time to hire you. Actually it is quite easy for them to do that.

Thanks very much acl65pilot thats all I needed to know.

Federal law prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin (see Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964). There are some exceptions for U.S. Government positions that require special clearances. But generally, as long as you have a Green Card and therefore the ability to work in the USA they cannot discriminate against you on the basis of your national origin.

Whether they do in fact discriminate in practice, I cannot tell you.

P.S. Showing that they can't find a suitable candidate is a requirement to get work visa for someone who is otherwise not authorized to work in the USA – this absolutely does not apply to you as you have a Green Card.

Just be glad you are not wanting
employment at Luke warm Chicks outfit.

Could you image a 3 day trip with her?

Her "do not pair" list must look like the Magna Carta.

This is the same exact thing i said. Sorry if it wasn't sugar coated for you. Awfully thin skinned aren't we? And whoever wrote the discrimination clause. WHat does this have to do with him not being a citizen? The fact that he is not a citizen has nothing to do with discrimination.

Just because your 4 ex wives fit into this category(at best), doesn't mean I do.

Lazarou:

Send me your info. I'd just love to fly with another @$$hole in black face. I've got a black face too, but it's associated with 4000 hrs Int'l PIC Turbine, American citizenship and 17 years honorable mil service. You don't deserve a green card.

True. If you have a green card, you should be just as employable as anyone else. No hoops to jump through.

First of all, the correct language is "permanent resident." The term "green card" is no longer used and it referred to the color of the card that PRs used to get. The only difference between a PR and a US citizen is precisely that - citizenship. A PR has all the rights and privileges of a citizen except for the right to vote.

Papa L, PM me if you need more information.

Thank God you're not a CAPTAIN on an A320! With the limited information you have been given in this thread, I have to wonder about your thought processes. I would hate to be in any airplane in which you had to make a snap decision. Get some help.
fbh

fbh, thanks for your post. I wanted to say something, but his post was so inappropriate and out of line that, for once, I could not find the proper words to describe how I felt. CAL's screening process missed and let this one get in.

Maybe I missed something. I'll clear it up...the black-face was offensive.... to me. And I did spend quite a bit of time as a Captain on the A-320, and several other large wide body aircraft. I will re-read and see if their was something that justifies that avatar, but I doubt it. It's hard to see how some wouldn't find that offensive, and if I'm the only one, it seems appropriate that Cal let one slip in. And I've nurtured many an F/O with that type of attitude, probably because guys like you won't. If the originator of this post would like to know why it might be offensive, please pm me and I'll elaborate. I've spent most of my time flying abroad and realize that cultural differences are difficult as a visitor. I'm just surprised that no one else felt obligated to tell you that black face isn't funny and won't be taken lightly if you aspire professional airline employment. Sorry if I called you an @sshole, you just acted like one posting that avatar. Listening to vgb & fbh won't help you, unless you can find an airline that condones that type of thing... trust me...it won't be easy. No one need to respond on this board. If you'd like to know why I was offended please pm me, I'll patiently explain.

One of the guys from my training class told me about a week ago, that CAL is now requiring citizenship. He tried to apply but couldn't because he's a greencard holder. About 4000 hours TT, with 2000 turboprop, and 1000 pure Turbine.

He told me it was related to the US Postal Service contract that CAL just got. Of course that begs the question, what are they going to do about their current non-citizen pilots?

Don't know if this is fact, but this is what I've heard.

Onfinal

Interesting thread, I do know that some carriers require their pilots to be US Passport Holders to participate in CRAF (Civil Reserve Air Fleet). In my experience this has been a Department of Defense rule and not air carrier specific, and only when in time of war. CAL does participate in CRAF. I am not familiar with a requirement for the USPS and that being said, UPS and FEDEX both require that the pilots they hire have not lived outside of the US for a specific amount of time for that very reason.

Regarding foreign pilots applying for positions at US carriers. America is a great nation that has trained pilots privately, professionally and militarily since I can remember. My first training base in the Air Force was at a NATO training location in North Central Texas, and the State I currently reside in is inundated with flight training schools with students from all over the globe, so I believe I can speak with some validity on this subject. Why do you think people from all over the world come to America for flight training? I think it is wonderful that people recognize that America is a wonderful place to take advantage of a democracy that allows such privileges and freedoms unlike that anywhere else in the world to come train. Good for us, good for them.

My position on hiring non citizen pilots in the US is that it is just another back door outsourcing of jobs in the U.S. This is in by no means an isolationist or discriminatory position, just fact. We have thousands of furloughed pilots in the US who are citizens with some jumping back into active duty military service to feed and medically cover their families (what about those who do not have that option), not to mention our guys and gals in the Armed Services who will be looking for jobs and lets not forget our folks at the regional & supplemental operations who are paying their dues to hopefully move on to a legacy carrier as great of an operation as CAL.

Come visit, vacation, train, whatever, but if you want to participate in employment in America and all of the other wonderful things that you can accomplish here...I welcome your application for citizenship.

Are you aware that you can serve in the military and NOT be a US citizen? There are over 60000 service members that are not citizens.

US law states that you must hold a resident alien card for 5 years prior to applying for citizenship. The law provides a few exemptions to the 5 year requirement. For example, if you are married to a citizen for three years, and your US spouse has been a US citizen for at least 3 years, the five year residency period is reduced to three years.

Legal alien residents contribute to the growth of the US economy and have every right to employment. They are taxed accordingly. Sometimes, alien residents contribute more because they appreciate what they have in the USA where many second generation and upwards Americans do not. Security clearances are the only potential hang up I see in the aviation industry. I have heard, and I may be incorrect, that a security clearance is required to handle mail.

Actually I did know that, however I do not know the exact number but if you say it is that high then I will assume you did your homework. I served with gentlemen who later became US Citizens and many others who followed during my 20+ years in the AF and I think that it is a great example of what people will and can do to become citizens. What I simply meant to convey was that while we have pilots who "are" citizens that can fill airline employment vacancies they should be considered above all else.

I have many associates who have come to America to better their lives by utilizing the very mechanisms that immigration allows for legally, and you are right that they do tend to appreciate it more when they become Naturalized Citizens (btw my wife is a naturalized citizen from EU) than some...certainly more so than the scum who steal citizenship by staying in America longer than their Visas allow or sneaking through our borders like rats in a sewer.

You are right. Come to America, come legally, participate, pay taxes, obey the laws and become a citizen.

:rolleyes:

Ahhh, Yes, but they can't pay taxes if they can't have a job.

Or does your reasoning only apply to Pilot jobs? :rolleyes:

Onfinal

This is very true, but somewhat irrelevant to an airline pilot discussion. You have to be a US citizen to be a military officer, and the vast majority of fixed-wing military jobs are avilable only to officers.

I have worked with some great foriegn-national service members, and have no problem with that program.

Their website doesn't say anything about that.

In order to work on a mail contract you have to pass a background check...I suspect the standard 121 check covers that. My airlines have all carried mail, and I never had a special background check for that (that I know of).

You do not need a security clearance to work with mail.

I am sure you do not need US citizship to participate in CRAF...almost every US major and national airline (except regionals) is in CRAF, and there are a lot of non-citizen pilots out there. CRAF doesn't do super-secret missions, or even high-risk missions under most circumstances.

blackface
 

I think that is a great point. My initial response was to highlight the airline industry pilot environment. That being said, I have no problem with folks from all walks of life coming to the US to work. My point is simply when we have a surplus of pilots to fly airplanes that are already here and citizens...why outsource.

Obviously this discussion can tentacle into so many other issues that I am sure everyone would love to jump into and participate, however in the interest of staying on message I will leave that to Lou Dobbs.

My concern is for jobs as PILOTS in this country.

Cheers!

fumes, I'm confused?
 

QUOTE=A320fumes;99175]Maybe I missed something. I'll clear it up...the black-face was offensive.... to me. And I did spend quite a bit of time as a Captain on the A-320, and several other large wide body aircraft. I will re-read and see if their was something that justifies that avatar, but I doubt it. It's hard to see how some wouldn't find that offensive, and if I'm the only one, it seems appropriate that Cal let one slip in. And I've nurtured many an F/O with that type of attitude, probably because guys like you won't. If the originator of this post would like to know why it might be offensive, please pm me and I'll elaborate. I've spent most of my time flying abroad and realize that cultural differences are difficult as a visitor. I'm just surprised that no one else felt obligated to tell you that black face isn't funny and won't be taken lightly if you aspire professional airline employment. Sorry if I called you an @sshole, you just acted like one posting that avatar. Listening to vgb & fbh won't help you, unless you can find an airline that condones that type of thing... trust me...it won't be easy. No one need to respond on this board. If you'd like to know why I was offended please pm me, I'll patiently explain.[/QUOTE]

Your use of the term "black face" in your post of 01-03-07 @11:38am was the FIRST that I can find in the thread. I'm offended by the term too. If it was in his/her avatar, it didn't show up on my computer.(it's still not showing) If that is in fact what happened, I'm sorry. I owe you an apology for dumping on you.
Sincerely,
fbh

The author of the thread did have an avatar of someone or something depicting a black face. I had never seen it before and it did not appear to be one of the more common stereotypical ones seen in the media. That avatar has since been removed, but I do not know when. A320's post did not make clear that it was the avatar he found offensive. I read his post to indicate he did not like the fact that Papa L is a permanent resident (green card holder). It is obvious I misunderstood you, A320, and for that I apologize. Like fbh, I find stereotypes and caricatures highly offensive, and they have no place in the forums.

Googling his screen name found me this:

http://www.papalazarou.co.uk/index2.html

My wild guess is that the initiator of this thread is probably from either the UK or Australia, a fan of that show and choose this screenname and the avatar. I don't think it was meant to be offensive. It's just that british humour tends to be offending at times. Just go and google Monty Python... or watch some BBC America ;)

Maybe this puts this into some kind of perspective.

Ya, whatever. That is a line of crap...nice one.:rolleyes:

Good post...

wow. you need to take a chill pill my friend. But, I guess you think it's ok to have an avatar of a sitcom that belittled those who lived in the robert taylor homes on chicago's south side. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle.....well you know what I mean. Lightnen up. ;)

And neither do you.....you're a LAWYER, right? Are all the law posts closed or summin'?:cool:

Hotmama:

Speak not of things you wouldn't have a clue about...John Amos...was my neighbor EWR, 7th ave projects, and a great man. Just got in from EGCC. I've read post from vgb & fbh before and couldn't figure out if I was smoking crack...or what. Yeah, the avatar is missing now and I probably showed too much slip. You didn't see the avatar, so... no harm, no foul. Glad to know it wasn't crack. Not angry at Papa either. Just got a little upset when I had to explain to my son, why the guy had black shoe-polish on his face. Hotmamma... if I seem a little irate, it's because I've spent a lot of the past five years trying to justify the American psyche abroad and it ****ed me off to find my fellow countrymen not as offended by the racial insult, I've posted a few when the guys left controlled flight and attacked you gender instead of your point. It's kinda like listening to someone tell you that you're unpatriotic from a bar-stool, when you just finished 3 / 40hr runs from Iraq in the past month. I enjoy this forum. Keep post-in. No disrespect or ill-will to any of you.
A3