Furlough history at UAL and DAL
 

What is the pilot furlough history at Delta and United? When, how many and what percentage of the pilot group?

Thanks

Trying to make a decision based on that information is like trying to predict when the Yellowstone super volcano is going to erupt.

True, United has furloughed twice in the last 15 years and Delta hasn't, but the airline business turns on a dime sometimes. Who is to say the situations can't/won't be reversed?

FWIW, Delta has a little safety net built in. If a black swan arrives approx 500 pilots could flow down to CZ if they choose. Up to you to decide if that's better than nothing.

Just curious, what then of the displaced CZ pilots?

-2263

Two major furlough periods at DAL:

Early to mid 90s, about 500 furloughed due to industry downturn.
Early to mid 2000s about 1300 furloughed due to 911 and subsequent industry downturn.


Scoop

They fall off the bottom.

FWIW, this "safety net" was likely what prevented a small furlough in the 2009ish time frame due to the financial implications.

Good point 80Kts. Added value for sure.

Delta furloughed in 1973 but called it a reassignment and offered jobs on the ramp. But you ask any of them and it was a furlough how ever Delta spun it then and now. Recalled them in 1976.

Trying to predict the future by looking at the past is like trying to drive down a country road at night with no headlights while looking out the back window!

Consolidation has made this industry very very different thanks at any time in the past. It is totally ludicrous to look at the the past and try to predict the future!

Asking a question on APC that would have anything negative in the response about Delta is like trying to walk a tightrope over a swamp full of crocodiles with low self esteem who for some reason are asking for wind checks seconds after receiving one, while also transmitting PA's on guard.

It was a simple question fellas. Didnt imply anything negative about either airline nor any future decisions to be made.

None of those that responded negatively to him are Deltoids.

The legendary A.K. got caught up in that one.

appreciate it

A few people think UAL parked planes and furloughed to rightsize for a CAL merger. Biggest thing that UAL did was recall and then furlough those same people just a couple of years later.

It was a simple question. Did you not see my simple response? :confused::confused:

Scoop

I've been told the first "official" furlough at Delta was after the PATCO strike in 1983. That was the first time DL couldn't offer ramper/crew scheduling/planning etc jobs to the extra pilots.

There were no furloughs or re assignments from 1979 to 1991.

The PATCO strike was in Aug 1981, not '83. Delta had a new hire class in training at the time, all 24(?) of them were 'released' with the promise that they would be the first ones to return, when Delta started hiring again.

It was Sept. of 1985 (4yrs. later) when they started hiring again, only 6 pilots from that 1981 class came back, on Sept. 3 of 1985, so they would have one day of seniority over the rest of their class, hired on Sept. 4.

Delta employees bought the company the first 767 in 1982, as a 'thank you' for not furloughing anyone during the economic downturn and controller's strike of 1981, as most of the other airlines did.

The first official pilot furlough was in 1993, under Ron Allen. This was right after Gulf War 1, fuel prices were high, loads were low, and he'd just paid too much for Pan Am's assets. Delta was losing about $3 Million a day at the time. He also fired about 20% of the other departments too, mx, reservations, office help, etc... under his "Project 7.5" program, (an effort to reduce our average seat costs to 7.5 cents).

United furloughed 2172 pilots in the aftermath of September 11th starting on 10/1/01. On 11/1/01 United parked it's entire fleet of B727s and B737-200s (75 and 22 respectively).

Soon after, United parked several B747-400s.

Then came 2008-09. All pilots had been recalled and UA had even hires some nubes. Glenn Tilton wanted to right size the airline for a CO merger. He parked the entire B737-300/500 fleet (94 aircraft ) and another 6 B747-400s. This led to the furlough of yet another 1400+.

GP

What is/was that in percentage wise of active and non-active pilots?

Yeaaaa. Bout that

Holy thread resurrection. But in all seriousness, regardless of utility in predicting the future, the original simple question was never answered. I think a rough WAG seems to be somewhere between 10-15% for most recent-ish events

Right size. United union doent have a good history. To Shrink for a merger makes no sense unless you can't make profit or the gov tells you to. Lots of people love that koolaid flavor.

Long haul international carriers will furlough over 20 percent. The last thing to come back is international travel. Especially when this thing will be still around in some form until next year and we at best case will just be coming out of a recession by then.

my guess is 25%
for each , American , united , delta. over a period of 12 months

another regional puke unable to get hired by a major because he’s an idiot.

Heh - trolls trolling other trolls!

i would wager 70-50%

I'm sure it had nothing to do with CO telling UA to pound sand when United first approached them with merger talks. United needed a dance partner and basically did what CO wanted to get the deal done. Tilton said that the 737's weren't fuel efficient, yet the new United operated CO's -500 fleet for nearly a decade.

Funny how as soon as United's Guppy fleet was parked and over 1400 pilots furloughed that a merger was announced.

GP

I have noticed tons of new memberships popping up during the coronavirus shutdown. I don’t if it’s just random people wanting to screw around out of boredom, regular members who make burner accounts to troll, or what. Strange stuff.

Yes the moderator team has noticed this, and some changes have been made.

CO as well parked all 73-500,300 and 76-200 and furloughed in 08. United parked the 73 and furloughed in 08. That is all 2 years before the meger. Every major airline parked jets after 08 because they all were losing money. Your revisionist history is twisted.

Are you able to share what changes those are?

New users have to have been registered for 30 days and have at least seven posts before being allowed to create threads. Some of the auto filters may treat them differently too, I don't have access to that stuff though.

When I came back from furlough in 2013 we still had to learn the 737-500 in the sims, but the last one was retired while I was waiting for IOE so I didn’t fly it on line. This was around May 2013. So while all UAL 737’s were retired by 2009, that was not the case with CO 737-500’s. I’m pretty sure the CO 767-200’s weren’t retired until 2013 either, but I’m not certain like I am about the 737-500.

So what your saying is that you never flew a 73-500 or 300 and never seen a 76-200.

Not at all, I flew the 737-300 and -500 at United before I was furloughed in 2008. When I came back on the CO side in 2013 they were still flying the 737-500 (they had not been retired in 2008 as you previously stated). But by the time I got to IOE in May 2013 they had just retired the last 737-500.

I have never flown a 767-200, only the -300 and -400.

So what your saying is that CO didn't retire any aircraft because of the gfc in 08 and 150$ oil. I wonder why they then had to furlough pilots?
but you never flew a 73-500 and 300 or seen a 76-200 when u came to CO in 13.

148 or so got furlough for no reason and you know it
737-500 and 767-200 were flying till third quarter 2013 or just about after that summer
dont make yourself look like a fool

come on bro

Maybe they furloughed for the merge