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Teaching ground school for a major... helpful for getting hired?

Old 08-16-2005, 09:06 AM
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Question Teaching ground school for a major... helpful for getting hired?

Here is my position. I have just over 1500 hours (all multi engine jet experience so far... thanks Air Force... and I also have 1000 PIC). I am transfering to the AF Reserves to start flying C-130s and I have an interview with one of the legacy carriers to teach ground school.

Here is the question/my options:

Do I:

1. Take the position teaching ground school? It would get me experience, a type rating and in with a legacy carrier (NWA), but they probably won't be hiring for FOs in quite some time. This would obviously cut into my ability to fly with the reserves and build hours.

2. Fly my a** off in the reserves for the next year (which would get me to about 2100-2300 hours.

3. Get a job with a commuter to build hours faster than I could in the reserves, but at a massive pay cut.

Looking for any and all advice.

Thanks all
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:46 PM
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I will throw my two cents into the hat....as a (five year, UGH) regional FO and an instructor at my airline, I say go for the ground school position.

You get a good rep knowing your stuff and meeting all of the right people and you will have a much greater chance of getting picked up than you will through the regional pipeline. There isn't too much movement these days and there won't likely be for a long time. Upgrade would take you awhile and there you are sitting as an FO logging SIC watching the freshness of your valuable PIC time go bye bye....Plus, the type rating is priceless!

In the reserves you will still fly and I imagine it won't take you too long to make AC, right? So there you go again with the PIC time building, albeit it slower than you would like. Besides, regionals treat you like crap for the most part and the pay is dog doo.

Secondly, I would go full time reserves if you don't take the ground job. Once you build those kind of hours that you mentioned, I hope that you would be able to bypass the regionals altogether and hit Southwest, Jetblue, or Fed Ex. They LOVE military guys.

Good luck! Maybe you can walk in MY resume one day!

Last edited by dhc8fo; 08-17-2005 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:20 PM
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i'll throw in my 2cents worth as well...in your position i'd pass on the ground school job at the legacy and stay in the reserves and fly my a** off...if you can i'd go active duty and fly even more get the military retirement and then go fedex / jb / sw / etc... and enjoy yourself. don't worry too much about the age factor...


v/r,
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Old 08-16-2005, 07:33 PM
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Thanks all for the replies...

First of all, I would love some more advice.

Secondly... I agree that going full time in the reserves would be the best choice right now, but unfortunetally do to the state of Northwest (and the rest of the industry) all the full time positions at my reserve unit have been gobbled up by furloughed pilots.

I think I am leaning towards the regionals, as well as continued part time flying with the reserves.
This choice will give me part 121 experience to couple with my military background. Hopefully after a year or two of this, I can knock down the door of Southwest, UPS, or FedEx.

But like I said, I'm all ears for somemore advice.

Thanks
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:28 AM
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I was thinking about your situation more last night... so here are more of my opinions...

(this is all the way it is at my airline, at least, so pardon me if I am off base here)

If you go to NWA as an instructor, you are considered management, right? As a management pilot you get your type and then can also fly the line as required to maintain manning and your own currency/experience. You will also get to operate the simulator, I imagine. All of this is far better than logging SIC time full time at a regional and will make you so much more hirable than Joe Schmoe at Regional X. Plus, your QOL will likely be WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than going to a regional, but maybe that isn't an issue with you.

If you go to a regional, you will not have any advantage over anyone else as far as getting to a major goes. You will rack up total time, yes, but although you have the required PIC time to apply to a major, several years will have passed since you logged it. This won't go unnoticed.

If full time reserves is what you want, there are plenty of billets but in various locations. Can you pick up and go to the place where the opportunities exist? If not, I would add commuting to a regional job as a huge detriment and another stike. You will never be home or see your family.

I am not all doom and gloom as I guess this email makes it seem, but I would hate for you to go to a regional thinking you are going to knock on Fed Ex's door in "a year or two." Not likely.

And why don't you apply right now to the big three? You TT isn't that high, but I have heard of stranger things as far as hiring goes.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:52 AM
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I worked in the NWA training building and my question to you is would you be an ATI or a simulator instructor? I don't think they hire sim instructors off-the-street; they are all NWA line pilots who became instructors.

The ATIs that teach groundschool have some time to wait before they can even get a chance to fly the line. They are after all of the furloughed pilots are recalled (currently about 500 and maybe more soon).

If teaching groundschool is what you want then go ahead and become an ATI at Northwest. If flying is what you want, keep doing what you are doing right now and go with one of your other two options that you mentioned.
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:26 AM
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Sir,

As an ex USAF Reserve Herc driver that flew in the commuters as well, I recommend you take the path that will get you the mostest/quickest left seat turbine time--sounds like that's being a full-time Herc pilot, unless you have other hot leads on quick paths to a left seat. When Herc time in my reserve unit was drying up due to cuts and lots of reserve bums, I took a commuter job that looked to have fast upgrade to Capt...I did upgrade in a year so it worked out...luck and timing is huge...I got some advice from one of my squadron/airline buddies: forget about money and quality of life in the career building stage and go where the experience will get you in a big jet seat ASAP and fly your tail off...seniority is life in a career. Some of my Herc buds fiddled around in various jobs and wasted a lot of time as FEs and FOs...don't mean to lecture, but I got lots of great advice from guys who knew and that's what I'm passing on to you. Good luck!
 
Old 08-17-2005, 08:44 AM
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Since you’re seeking opinions, here’s mine. The ground school job is worthless unless A) NWA is the one and only airline you’ve ever wanted to fly for and B) You’ll wait as long as it takes for the situation there to improve to the point that they begin hiring off-the-street.

My first choice in your situation would be full time guard. It’s stable and you’ll make pretty good money. While I realize you said full time is not an option at the moment in your unit, I’d seek a position with a growth mode regional (Chautauqua?) and then pick up as much guard flying as is possible.

Disclaimer; you must realize what’s a growth airline today might be a shrinking airline tomorrow. Most regionals exist on a backbone of contractual agreements. Contracts come and go and so do the companies the regionals are contracted with. Back in 2000, I knew many-a-FO who left other regionals to come to the company I was flying for at the time. When I asked why they left a seemingly stable company, they said they came here for the quick upgrade. Well, things changed and those quick upgrades stopped. Those guys never got their PIC time and most are now furloughed.

Hope this gives you something to think about.

Tipsy
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Old 08-17-2005, 12:33 PM
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Bengalsfan,
Your situation is very similar to mine 14 years ago. I left active military in 1992 during the worst economic time in airline history (until this one of course). You do not want to go to a commuter. For your backround, that would be moving backwards. If you have a reserve job, flying big tubines PIC, you should stay in a position that allows you to be available for extra drill periods, ADSW, detachements etc. You should be living it your USAFR base. Be avilable to fly at any time and make sure your CO, DO, etc., all know it. I interviewed at Contiental Express for the interview experience and when they offered me a job, I told them that I'd need a min. of 3k/mo. as opposed to the 1k/mo. that they were offering. The reason I mention this is that I made 42k flling A6's that year as a part timer by being available (turbine PIC). If I'd gone with CoEx, I'd have made 12k and all SIC time. You won't have too much available time to give the reserves.
I'd live in my reserve base and do the reserves, If you need more to do, choose something that is very flexable for time scheduling, like starting a yard mowing service or something. I worked as a Deputy Sheriff for 3 years and was able to easily trade shifts around and had a blast. Do something you want to do on the side that doesn't interfere with your USAFR flying.
Also, you may want to concentrate on JetBlue, Airtran, SWA, FedEx, UPS, ABEX, etc. As one of the other guys posted, seniority is everything (at your final airline). Look very hard at upgrade times and business models. I was hired by American in Feb,04 on a Friday and laid-off the following Monday. Back then, they were estimating 14 years to upgrade. That was before 9-11. After that experience, and some industry research, I put all my concentration into SWA and FedEx. Top pay scales in heavy metal is not a important as time to upgrade. At AA, I would be lucky to get 10 years in the left seat vice 19 years at SWA. I just paid the bills as an FO but am building wealth as a Capt. Hope this helps but it's just my opinion, Hope it all works out for you.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:16 PM
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Don't forget the secondary airlines like North American, World, Omni, Pace and some of the other charter and cargo carriers. You'll get some civillian 121 time which is nice and get to fly to cool places hauling your fellow military peeps around. Upgrades can come pretty quickly, too. A lot of guys I have flown with have gone that route and they had a blast.
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