To the Flying Magazine Writer on here...
03-29-2015, 01:10 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,568
Not sure where you work, but I work with pilots that are extremely professional at Delta. I jump on AA quite a bit and see the same.
Originally Posted by LIOG41
With the exception of a few off the mark comments, I don't think it was too far from the truth. We as pilots need to step it up professionally. Despite the pay and sub-average working conditions once in awhile, maintain your integrity and dedication to the craft.
03-29-2015, 05:08 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 983
Guys, remember the intended audience of the opinion piece. What he was TRYING to say is that "pilots are human beings too, and as human beings, they are not perfect" which is the response to "why didn't they know this guy was going to commit murder-suicide?"
What instead he wrote was a "pilots are technicians who don't care about pax" and "pilots are no better than the average joe." It is incorrect, offensive, and will do further damage to the already severely damaged prestige of the profession.
His original point was true. Have you ever forgotten your keys in the house? I have. We all have. We're human.
His "logical extension" is NOT true. Have you ever taken off without flaps, or on the wrong runway? Have I ever left a tool inside a patient? Nope. Never have, never will. We're professionals, exceedingly well trained and always careful, take our job and the people we serve most seriously.
I see attacking the guy's credibility as a sideshow. Even if this was a 20,000 hour ATP writing the same thing it would be equally wrong (but yes, I doubt anybody with experience would write such a thing.) The piece is out there on the web, attack it on its falsehoods don't just try to "smear the author." The average reader will think that the "outsider" to the industry may be more trustworthy in a way.
What instead he wrote was a "pilots are technicians who don't care about pax" and "pilots are no better than the average joe." It is incorrect, offensive, and will do further damage to the already severely damaged prestige of the profession.
His original point was true. Have you ever forgotten your keys in the house? I have. We all have. We're human.
His "logical extension" is NOT true. Have you ever taken off without flaps, or on the wrong runway? Have I ever left a tool inside a patient? Nope. Never have, never will. We're professionals, exceedingly well trained and always careful, take our job and the people we serve most seriously.
I see attacking the guy's credibility as a sideshow. Even if this was a 20,000 hour ATP writing the same thing it would be equally wrong (but yes, I doubt anybody with experience would write such a thing.) The piece is out there on the web, attack it on its falsehoods don't just try to "smear the author." The average reader will think that the "outsider" to the industry may be more trustworthy in a way.
03-29-2015, 05:33 AM
#33
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by cardiomd
Guys, remember the intended audience of the opinion piece. What he was TRYING to say is that "pilots are human beings too, and as human beings, they are not perfect" which is the response to "why didn't they know this guy was going to commit murder-suicide?"
What instead he wrote was a "pilots are technicians who don't care about pax" and "pilots are no better than the average joe." It is incorrect, offensive, and will do further damage to the already severely damaged prestige of the profession.
His original point was true. Have you ever forgotten your keys in the house? I have. We all have. We're human.
His "logical extension" is NOT true. Have you ever taken off without flaps, or on the wrong runway? Have I ever left a tool inside a patient? Nope. Never have, never will. We're professionals, exceedingly well trained and always careful, take our job and the people we serve most seriously.
I see attacking the guy's credibility as a sideshow. Even if this was a 20,000 hour ATP writing the same thing it would be equally wrong (but yes, I doubt anybody with experience would write such a thing.) The piece is out there on the web, attack it on its falsehoods don't just try to "smear the author." The average reader will think that the "outsider" to the industry may be more trustworthy in a way.
What instead he wrote was a "pilots are technicians who don't care about pax" and "pilots are no better than the average joe." It is incorrect, offensive, and will do further damage to the already severely damaged prestige of the profession.
His original point was true. Have you ever forgotten your keys in the house? I have. We all have. We're human.
His "logical extension" is NOT true. Have you ever taken off without flaps, or on the wrong runway? Have I ever left a tool inside a patient? Nope. Never have, never will. We're professionals, exceedingly well trained and always careful, take our job and the people we serve most seriously.
I see attacking the guy's credibility as a sideshow. Even if this was a 20,000 hour ATP writing the same thing it would be equally wrong (but yes, I doubt anybody with experience would write such a thing.) The piece is out there on the web, attack it on its falsehoods don't just try to "smear the author." The average reader will think that the "outsider" to the industry may be more trustworthy in a way.
As I said earlier, my passengers have always shown themselves to be persuaded by logic and honesty. Therefore I'm not concerned about his article damaging our profession. I've seen these kind of uneducated personal attacks by non-airline pilots for decades. They don't stick because our safety record speaks for itself. Passengers get that. It doesn't mean that we don't call out the uneducated and unqualified when they speak so inaccurately.
Carl
03-29-2015, 07:03 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 983
I've encountered a lot of cynicism from my field too. A subset of people think that "doctors are trying to protect their own" and would welcome perspective from outside the field. But, if we used only people with credentials and experience to talk about a field there would be no journalists. That lack of firsthand experience doesn't disqualify him from talking about the issue, the fact that he is very wrong does.
03-29-2015, 07:05 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 983
BTW I'm not so sanguine about the effects of propaganda.
>Therefore I'm not concerned about his article damaging our profession. I've seen these kind
>of uneducated personal attacks by non-airline pilots for decades. They don't stick because
>our safety record speaks for itself. Passengers get that.
I still am worried with opinion pieces like this broadly misinforming the public. Since I became a pilot quite awhile ago, I have encountered scores of people who think that plane flight is totally automated, and that the pilot literally sits back and watches all phases of flight. The vast majority of people have never met or talked to an actual airline pilot, and CNN has a wide reach. The article implies that pilots and "duffers" are equivalent. To quote Val, "I don't like him because he's dangerous."
If one thing media has tought me, where there is vested interests even the most mundane facts or ideas can become twisted with propaganda and misinformation.
I'm all for "calling the guy out" - only basing what I think he was "trying to say" based on his actual writing of the article, what other motivation could there be? I find it hard to believe somebody could be incredibly malevolent.
In a sense I think that the readers distill what he was "trying to say" too, as evidenced by some of the comments:
>Therefore I'm not concerned about his article damaging our profession. I've seen these kind
>of uneducated personal attacks by non-airline pilots for decades. They don't stick because
>our safety record speaks for itself. Passengers get that.
I still am worried with opinion pieces like this broadly misinforming the public. Since I became a pilot quite awhile ago, I have encountered scores of people who think that plane flight is totally automated, and that the pilot literally sits back and watches all phases of flight. The vast majority of people have never met or talked to an actual airline pilot, and CNN has a wide reach. The article implies that pilots and "duffers" are equivalent. To quote Val, "I don't like him because he's dangerous."
If one thing media has tought me, where there is vested interests even the most mundane facts or ideas can become twisted with propaganda and misinformation.
I'm all for "calling the guy out" - only basing what I think he was "trying to say" based on his actual writing of the article, what other motivation could there be? I find it hard to believe somebody could be incredibly malevolent.
In a sense I think that the readers distill what he was "trying to say" too, as evidenced by some of the comments:
metalcrow 22 hours ago
So what you are saying is pilots are human - thanks.
So what you are saying is pilots are human - thanks.
03-29-2015, 07:16 AM
#36
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,642
I read the article and it also did not sit well with me. I spent 7 years 121 at the regionals and 8 as corporate, where I am now. My passengers are are why my job exists.
If anything, a corporate guy is even more involved with passengers than *gasp* an airline pilot! I carry their bags. I make their car and transportation reservations. I book catering. I clean their trash. I install their children's car seat. I tell jokes with the CEO, and I listed to that one lady talk non-stop from takeoff to landing. Oh yeah, and we also dispatch ourselves. File our own flight plans. Get our own weather. And we fly in to the very same airports as the big boys...DFW, ORD, CLE, SFO, etc. Then, I carry their bags. I clean the airplane. I book their transportation....you get the picture.
Of course I think about my passengers!
While cruising safely at FL450 the other day, I thought about what happened in France. I thought about the profession. What clearly was marked in my mind was that the Germanwings FO barely had any skin in the game in his stage in his career, and had been told in training that he didn't meet the standards. He wasn't cut out for it. Lufthansa should have stuck to their guns.
This FO ceased to be a professional the day he went on meds that weren't approved (from what I'm reading). From that moment on, he was just a commercial rated kid with a multiengine instrument ticket riding along in an A320 with a medical condition he was hiding.
He wasn't a pro.
He was a time-builder with mental problems. He was a right seat nobody along for the ride that just didn't give a sh#t about anyone, including himself.
And you know...I guess I'm not as smart as I thought, and I'm no engineer.
But I do know what a professional is. Maybe the author should try being one.
If anything, a corporate guy is even more involved with passengers than *gasp* an airline pilot! I carry their bags. I make their car and transportation reservations. I book catering. I clean their trash. I install their children's car seat. I tell jokes with the CEO, and I listed to that one lady talk non-stop from takeoff to landing. Oh yeah, and we also dispatch ourselves. File our own flight plans. Get our own weather. And we fly in to the very same airports as the big boys...DFW, ORD, CLE, SFO, etc. Then, I carry their bags. I clean the airplane. I book their transportation....you get the picture.
Of course I think about my passengers!
While cruising safely at FL450 the other day, I thought about what happened in France. I thought about the profession. What clearly was marked in my mind was that the Germanwings FO barely had any skin in the game in his stage in his career, and had been told in training that he didn't meet the standards. He wasn't cut out for it. Lufthansa should have stuck to their guns.
This FO ceased to be a professional the day he went on meds that weren't approved (from what I'm reading). From that moment on, he was just a commercial rated kid with a multiengine instrument ticket riding along in an A320 with a medical condition he was hiding.
He wasn't a pro.
He was a time-builder with mental problems. He was a right seat nobody along for the ride that just didn't give a sh#t about anyone, including himself.
And you know...I guess I'm not as smart as I thought, and I'm no engineer.
But I do know what a professional is. Maybe the author should try being one.
03-29-2015, 08:48 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by cardiomd
I've encountered a lot of cynicism from my field too. A subset of people think that "doctors are trying to protect their own" and would welcome perspective from outside the field. But, if we used only people with credentials and experience to talk about a field there would be no journalists. That lack of firsthand experience doesn't disqualify him from talking about the issue, the fact that he is very wrong does.
He doesn't know why we wear our uniforms.
He doesn't know what the uniform hats and stripes "say."
He doesn't know what our favorite topics are when we talk amongst ourselves.
He doesn't know how we feel about the passengers and crew we fly.
He doesn't know what we identify with. &
He doesn't know why we value smooth landings.
The irony of it all is that all of these statements come from an article titled, "The Truth About Pilots."
If he is a professional writer, I believe he should know better.
I think if a non-doctor were to write such personal things about you, as a doctor, and they were so wrong on so many levels, with no supporting evidence, you would probably say, "Hey! You aren't even a doctor! What do you know?"
That's all you are seeing here.
03-29-2015, 09:03 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by Timbo
He's now a 71yr. Old curmudgeon so just about everything he writes is going to be pretty haphazard. He sounds like he's an Airline Pilot wannabee but was passed over, and now he's a just a grumpy old man.
As most have pointed out above, he knows NOTHING of being an Airline Pilot, and in his vast 4,000 hours in a light single, he doesn't know much about flying in general. He's certainly never flown large jet transports safely around the world, around the clock in all kinds of weather for 20,000 hours. He could probably take some of his own advice, do some research, and 'step it up' as a professional journalist. It's a sad day when Richard Quest knows more about Airline Pilots than this tool. And Richard's not even a Pilot!
Read his bio, he's a aircraft designer wannabee, pilot wannabee, software designer wannabe, (see a pattern?) who's settled for spewing his mindless rants on things he knows nothing about. If I see this article reprinted in next month's Flying Magazine, I'll unsubscribe the next day.
And Amen to Carl's post above.
As most have pointed out above, he knows NOTHING of being an Airline Pilot, and in his vast 4,000 hours in a light single, he doesn't know much about flying in general. He's certainly never flown large jet transports safely around the world, around the clock in all kinds of weather for 20,000 hours. He could probably take some of his own advice, do some research, and 'step it up' as a professional journalist. It's a sad day when Richard Quest knows more about Airline Pilots than this tool. And Richard's not even a Pilot!
Read his bio, he's a aircraft designer wannabee, pilot wannabee, software designer wannabe, (see a pattern?) who's settled for spewing his mindless rants on things he knows nothing about. If I see this article reprinted in next month's Flying Magazine, I'll unsubscribe the next day.
And Amen to Carl's post above.
I just read his bio on Wikipedia. He doesn't seem to be a bad person. I think he just wrote a bad article.
03-29-2015, 09:10 AM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by newKnow
He doesn't know why we wear our uniforms.
He doesn't know what the uniform hats and stripes "say."
He doesn't know what the uniform hats and stripes "say."
And then they wonder why people like Peter have no respect for airline pilots anymore. Some of our "peers" have laid the groundwork for articles like this.
03-29-2015, 09:20 AM
#40
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: It's still a Guppy, just a bit longer.
Posts: 727
One of our weaknesses as a group is our inability to appropriately respond to ignorant media. Airline Pilots, in essence, have poor PR. ALPA could respond, but likely won't be taken seriously and will probably come off too "preachy," thereby reinforcing the stereotype they would be trying to shatter.
More voices like Carl's, and others I've seen on here with a talent for conveying a message, are needed to clarify and educate the media. Whenever disaster strikes, they reach for the same non-professionals.
For example, spending hours in a video-game sim in Toronto with a guy dressed like a 5 year old explaining what might have happened to the MH777, or my favorite, bringing on Dr. Phil, a private pilot, as an aviation expert after Sully's successful mishap.
How about a rebuttal that explains that just because airline flying is a bit esoteric shouldn't mean that the media should pretend to understand what we do for a living, by continuously overusing the term "AUTOPILOT". That term alone has done more damage to the image of this profession than any crap article. And it's a misnomer!
ALPA needs to recruit a PR firm.
More voices like Carl's, and others I've seen on here with a talent for conveying a message, are needed to clarify and educate the media. Whenever disaster strikes, they reach for the same non-professionals.
For example, spending hours in a video-game sim in Toronto with a guy dressed like a 5 year old explaining what might have happened to the MH777, or my favorite, bringing on Dr. Phil, a private pilot, as an aviation expert after Sully's successful mishap.
How about a rebuttal that explains that just because airline flying is a bit esoteric shouldn't mean that the media should pretend to understand what we do for a living, by continuously overusing the term "AUTOPILOT". That term alone has done more damage to the image of this profession than any crap article. And it's a misnomer!
ALPA needs to recruit a PR firm.
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