biigD

This is a purely psychological thing, but while on per diem, there still exists a sense that you're paying for the food out of your own pocket. It's hard for me to compartmentalize the per diem money deposited on my middle paycheck towards food alone. It all becomes part of the pile.

So when my wife calls and says she just spent two grand getting the car fixed, there's a natural tendency for me to dial back my spending, including what I spend on food. Whereas during my corporate days, I'd shrug my shoulders and head to Morton's for a $50 steak.

You can also argue that this is an advantage on the per diem side, as thrifty spending on the road results in excess per diem money that can be used elsewhere. But I think these two viewpoints touch on the differences between the two jobs overall. The best things about my corporate job all centered around my QOL while on the road, whereas the best things about my current airline job all contribute to the QOL of my home life. As I got older, I found the latter situation to be more important to me.

3 green

I think it is a no brainer...Go to the legacy. Just consider moving to one of the bases if at all possible.

Sliceback

You'll have several decades at the new job. Not commuting, for decades, has a value.

And you can't compare the last 15 yrs to the future. In the next 15 yrs AA loses 77% of it's pilots due to age 65. Factor in the avg retirement age and it's 80%. That's 777/787 CA in 15 yrs for the early movers. DL and UA have similar numbers but the bow wave has already left town.

SayAlt

+1

No baggage handling.
No cleaning the plane.
You DON'T have to go to the hangar everyday.
You will know your schedule.
Travel worldwide on company metal.



Really, it's as simple as making a list of "pros" and "cons" for each job, subsequently weight adjusted for your personal level of likes/dislikes.

BoilerUP

Last year I left a great light cabin 91 Chief Pilot job for a major airline.

I loved my former job and boss, but the decision was a no-brainer...even with the radical lifestyle change.

In my corporate job, I flew about 350-400hr/yr between a Citation and a Cirrus. I "worked" 12-15 days per month, rarely on weekends. Most of our trips were scheduled weeks in advance. AMEX Platinum for expenses, stay/eat wherever we wanted on the road, family allowed to travel with on the plane if space was available, etc. QOL was exceptionally high.

However, it was a small privately owned company with a HARD working owner-founder-CEO-HMFIC who a decade earlier had heart surgery. He was extremely healthy and an active runner, but I felt that if he was hit by a bus tomorrow, I didn't know if I'd have a job next week. In my early 30s with a couple young kids at home, I didn't want to be in my early 40s with nearly two decades flying Citations just to find myself out of a job and having missed ten years of boom hiring.

This is, of course, to say nothing of the very significant delta in potential career earnings, especially for somebody with 25+ years remaining.

I had previous 121 regional experience so I was very familiar with the ins and outs of airline life - for somebody without any airline experience, it is a HUGE culture shock compared to 91. I'm fortunate that my commute to work is cake. The probationary pay cut was quite significant, but prior planning mitigated its impact and once on second year pay I'm money ahead.

I very much enjoyed my 91 job, and if I was still there I'd be happy...but I have absolutely zero regrets about my decision to go. That said, if the decision involved a messy multiple-leg commute to sit reserve (even if just for a year or two) it wouldn't have been the no-brainer that it was for me.

Thankfully we seem to be entering a period where there will be movement, and if a 91 pilot wants to try major 121 and decides they don't like the job, there should be an opportunity to go back into 91.

Good luck with your decision.

nyc7erb

I left a Fortune 50 company flying Glufstreams to go to Delta. It was a tough transition at first...lots to get used to. But by far, it was the best career decision I ever made. In terms of $$ and job security there is no comparison. The big factor s are to get off reserve and live in base. If you can do those two things your life will be sweet.

forgot to bid

I always think about Bellsouth. One of the best corporate departments around, and after a M&A it's gone. They took some pilots to Texas but a lot got a package and that was that.

TurbineDriver

Go to the legacy. You can always go back to corporate and not be burned by the seniority list like you would if you decided in 10 years to go to a legacy.

horseface

I left a 91 gig to go back to a legacy after nearly 10 yrs on furlough.

Its not an easy choice, definitely not as simple a make a list...if its even close to that you're not with a top tier dept.

the department i was with had 4 gulfstreams and a global, plus 2 650s ordered on first day of availability. Have since bought a couple BBJs. principals my age, upper 30s at the time, both on the forbes 400. all personal/recreational travel. no short notice pop up stuff. no cleaning the plane, no lav dumping. load a few bags and go. we chose the hotel. ordered what we wanted to eat onboard. my expense account was 10-40k/month. carried significant cash everywhere to keep things moving.

Gone a lot. spent 60 continuous days in the Med, 60 days in the south pacific, 30 days in latin america, all in the same summer, which was not an inordinate amount of time away. mostly off-the-beaten-path resort type places. principals frequently on their boat, usually 12 or more hours out, so we had time for excursions.

Time away was good or bad depending on your point of view. the places frequently had only boutique type lodging. rooms sometimes at/above $1K/day for 2 pilots and a 1FA

you get to actually think a LOT more in the pt 91 sector. I know a lot of airline guys may not get this part, but airline ops are staggeringly mundane. I really enjoyed the wide range of stuff you have to deal with on the 91 side of the fence. ex: after a 9 hr overnight leg, you just landed in XXXX with the principals, and they have a cooler full of some fresh fish that the boat chef requested to serve the principal and guests on board. customs dude in XXXX informs you while you're walking the pax through immigration that this particular fish is prohibited from even being in this country, so it must be destroyed immediately. Principal says to you, make it happen... That kind of stuff is a stressful kind of fun...no answer in the manual for much of the 91 stuff, you get to decide a course of action.


Long effin legs, pt 91., all 2 man crew. no rest reqs. left the west coast at midnight for europe many times. did many long legs. 8-12 hr legs common. longest i recall was abu dhabi to US west coast with a tech stop in keflavic. close to max range legs were pretty common. A glex burns only 1000# a side up at fl490. take off with 45.5k#, you can stretch it a while, newer stuff even longer.

I only knew of a very small number of other 91 gigs that I thought of as equal or maybe slightly better. getting into one of them was like trying to get struck by lightning, not easy. As Im sure you know there are others that no one has even heard about.

Fun adventure for a while. great equipment, lodging, meals. now I have a good schedule, equal pay, better retirement. go to ho hum places and layovers are a few hours, instead of a few weeks...being able to go on my own vacations, live where I want all good. don't have to land in wacky places. no night visuals in mountainous areas.

Both sides will ebb and flow over the years, neither perfect. The problem is, you don't get to really know which is the right choice for you until retirement...

SayAlt

With the $$ you're talking about? In cash, US dollars?

Not a problem.

There are "fixers" in every country. And they are relatively easy to find. My first question to a customs guy in this situation has always been, "Is there someone I can speak with who can help us with this problem?" Works like magic. Best course of action, though, is to anticipate this need and have the number of the fixer before you arrive in-country (regardless of if you know you need them or not). Of course, this game can be more difficult (read: expensive) in 1st World nations vs. Third world, but the game is the game everywhere you go.

Also, the boat chef in question should've known about the problem here if he's worth his salary and would have avoided creating a problem, unless the principal was determined to have that particular fish on that particular day. In which case, he should have gotten word to the principal of the issue and asked him to be sure you knew you were going to have an issue upon arrival. Going back to the para. above, you would have called your fixer and given him/her a heads-up about the particulars and they would be there to meet you upon arrival to help speed you on your way.

Btw, the real $$ has a personal assistant to do this kind of thing for them, not the flight crew. I would charge extra for the services. Either way, a principal who plays this game knows they are going to pay for the privilege of being above the laws. If they don't, I'd question going to work for them in the first place.