SWA or UPS
01-23-2007 | 12:42 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,126
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From: Brown
The point here is to take the first job offered by either. He sounds like he is going to get an offer from SWA. Likely he will make enough $$$ flying for SWA (compaired to what he might make flying for a regional) while he waits for UPS to more than make up for what he spends on the type rating. The fact that the rating is tax deductable make it even cheaper. If SWA would hire him and he could fly for them for a while before UPS calls could be a great opportunity to see what it would be like to stay there. Might give him the chance to make a more informed decision when UPS calls........
01-24-2007 | 05:20 AM
#22
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Joined: Jun 2006
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From: B737/Capt
01-24-2007 | 05:26 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 998
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From: B737/Capt
Where do you live??
Do you live in Florida, Southern California, Alaska, or Kentucy. If so, I would say definately UPS.
If you live in Las Vegas, Washington DC, Texas, Chicago, Phoenix, or Northern California, I would say Southwest would maybe be a better choice.
Rickair is right when he said that UPS is a much more stable job. Remember that Southwest has been losing money if you exclude fuel hedges for several of the last quarters. Fuel is an airline's largest expense, and when the price doubles, you might see their balance sheets turn red. Remember that they run a somewhat inefficient point to point route map as opposed to the traditional hub and spoke method. This can be seen by the fact that they have the industry's LOWEST load factor in the vicinity of 70% (as opposed to 85% at most other majors). They also have no lucrative international routes. Now that United and US Air have emerged from bankruptcy as lean, mean, airline machines, and Delta and Northwest will eventually emerge from bankruptcy, Southwest will have a tougher time competing against the powerful legacy airlines as opposed to when they were high cost entities.
Back to UPS, it is hard to start up a cargo airline that can compete with UPS and FedEx because of their massive systems. They can pretty much raise prices as they please to cover costs. An airline like Southwest cannot raise fares without losing market share. And any Joe Shmo can start up an airline like Skybus or Virgin America that fly few routes, but can take market share from Southwest, and charge customers less.
I know I am being a little harsh, but your entire career is dependent upon this choice. All in all, you are in a good position (I wish I was in your predicament). If you live in a UPS domicile, definately go UPS. If you live in a Southwest domicilie, consider Southwest. Otherwise, look at the two companies, and their VERY DIFFERENT industries, and choose which you is the best for you. Personally I would choose UPS.
Good luck with your decision.
Do you live in Florida, Southern California, Alaska, or Kentucy. If so, I would say definately UPS.
If you live in Las Vegas, Washington DC, Texas, Chicago, Phoenix, or Northern California, I would say Southwest would maybe be a better choice.
Rickair is right when he said that UPS is a much more stable job. Remember that Southwest has been losing money if you exclude fuel hedges for several of the last quarters. Fuel is an airline's largest expense, and when the price doubles, you might see their balance sheets turn red. Remember that they run a somewhat inefficient point to point route map as opposed to the traditional hub and spoke method. This can be seen by the fact that they have the industry's LOWEST load factor in the vicinity of 70% (as opposed to 85% at most other majors). They also have no lucrative international routes. Now that United and US Air have emerged from bankruptcy as lean, mean, airline machines, and Delta and Northwest will eventually emerge from bankruptcy, Southwest will have a tougher time competing against the powerful legacy airlines as opposed to when they were high cost entities.
Back to UPS, it is hard to start up a cargo airline that can compete with UPS and FedEx because of their massive systems. They can pretty much raise prices as they please to cover costs. An airline like Southwest cannot raise fares without losing market share. And any Joe Shmo can start up an airline like Skybus or Virgin America that fly few routes, but can take market share from Southwest, and charge customers less.
I know I am being a little harsh, but your entire career is dependent upon this choice. All in all, you are in a good position (I wish I was in your predicament). If you live in a UPS domicile, definately go UPS. If you live in a Southwest domicilie, consider Southwest. Otherwise, look at the two companies, and their VERY DIFFERENT industries, and choose which you is the best for you. Personally I would choose UPS.
Good luck with your decision.
01-24-2007 | 07:37 AM
#24
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 72
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From: FO
Lots of good advice here. Basicly it boils down to this: Take the SWA job but stay in the UPS pool. If UPS offers you a job and you're not enamoured with flying "carbon based revenue generators" around, jump ship.
Given the choice between passengers and freighters, I prefer to fly freight. Boxes don't ***** and you don't have to get permission from a F/A to take a leak.
Given the choice between passengers and freighters, I prefer to fly freight. Boxes don't ***** and you don't have to get permission from a F/A to take a leak.
01-24-2007 | 11:18 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
The point here is to take the first job offered by either. He sounds like he is going to get an offer from SWA. Likely he will make enough $$$ flying for SWA (compaired to what he might make flying for a regional) while he waits for UPS to more than make up for what he spends on the type rating. The fact that the rating is tax deductable make it even cheaper. If SWA would hire him and he could fly for them for a while before UPS calls could be a great opportunity to see what it would be like to stay there. Might give him the chance to make a more informed decision when UPS calls........
"Given the fact that you could sit in the brown pool indefinitely I would go get the type (if I could afford it) and get in the first class available at SW".
The reason he doesn't have a bird in hand yet is because he doesn't have the type.
So until he has a type (no slam dunk) and is sitting in class at SW or is yanked out of the pool at UPS and is sitting in class, he has nothing in hand.
That is the main dilemma here. Spend the bucks to get the bird in hand or wait it out at Brown.
If it were me, I'd get the type, get in class at SW ASAP, and kiss Brown goodbye.
That is just me.
01-24-2007 | 11:20 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Educational expense for improving qualifications in the same field. Looks pretty cut and dried to me, but then again I am not a tax attorney.
Of course I wouldn't put too much stock in tax advice on a pilot web board anyway.
01-24-2007 | 03:21 PM
#28
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 14
From: Tool-Box, old man
Just got the call from Southwest
, don't have the type rating yet. Just received the letter from UPS stating I'm in the Pool . What would you do?
Just wondering what everyone has to say? I think both companys are great. Just trying to make a good choice, and weigh the pros and cons of both.
Thanks
, don't have the type rating yet. Just received the letter from UPS stating I'm in the Pool . What would you do?Just wondering what everyone has to say? I think both companys are great. Just trying to make a good choice, and weigh the pros and cons of both.
Thanks
If Browntail offers you a spot later, then decide.
fbh
01-24-2007 | 03:54 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 2
From: FO, looking left
What is so odd about it. Southwest has the industries LOWEST loadfactor. About 70%, while most the legacies are around 85%. Why? Because Southwest offers point to point service.
I am not saying it is bad. I am not saying Southwest cannot make money with it. I am just saying that the hub and spoke system is more efficient than point to point.
I am not saying it is bad. I am not saying Southwest cannot make money with it. I am just saying that the hub and spoke system is more efficient than point to point.
01-24-2007 | 04:12 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
From: B737, Capt.
Maybe your wife isn't as smart as you think she is!
Educational expense for improving qualifications in the same field. Looks pretty cut and dried to me, but then again I am not a tax attorney.
Of course I wouldn't put too much stock in tax advice on a pilot web board anyway.
Educational expense for improving qualifications in the same field. Looks pretty cut and dried to me, but then again I am not a tax attorney.
Of course I wouldn't put too much stock in tax advice on a pilot web board anyway.
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