JB, VX pilots.
 

Current JetBlue and Virgin America pilots:

How many of you fully plan on staying at your present employer and not leaving for a legacy?

Not creating a flame war, just honestly interested.

If you plan on staying, why?

The legacies seemingly offer more stability and job protection (yes, I know not always but overall this is true). They also offer more money, both in outright pay scales, but also in work rules and retirements. Furthermore, they currently offer more aircraft, routes and domiciles.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.

On the JB-VX side, I see a marvelous product that the customers love; a product that I could stand behind and be proud of. These carriers also have room for future growth, shorter upgrade times and a younger crowd with a more fun attitude. However, the pay is less, as is the retirement, work rules and medical benefits. Yes, both companies have recently become card carrying ALPA members, so maybe there will be a positive change.

Anyway, curious for your answers. Personally, I believe I would be much happier flying for JB or VX on a day to day basis, but at what cost? And thinking 30 years into the future... Who knows. That said, competitive apps are in at all three.

Chip.

Can't speak for JB but at VX it's stagnated. Anyone hired now is going to be a FO for a long time so given a choice they may as well go to a legacy. In fact based on the current fleet plan we have already hired our last Captain we'll need for a loong time. I'm happy here and would like to stay long term. That having been said (at 31) I'd be silly not to accept a legacy job if offered. But I'm not actively pursuing it either, no job fairs, no networking, etc.



Honestly, I wouldn't care about any of those things. I've seen airline management is the same all around. Let me fly, pay me, and I'll go home. Let the pilots be grumpy and disenfranchised. They'll be retired in a few years and they won't be a problem any more. If you're really thinking 30 years in the future I don't think jetBlue or Virgin America will be existing as stand-alone carriers. They will most likely be merged or merge with someone else. Delta, American, and United being the three big legacy airlines will most likely be around in 30 years.

Sometimes people don't look at the big picture. The response that my "unknown LCC" gets from customers that are customers of the "legacies" are very positive. And we don't create the words of the day like "capacity dumping" because it's called supply and demand. You supply a product that people like and they will go. I call this the head in the sand.........:D....not to mention I'm not interested in flying for the military after the military. And our upgrade is 3-4 years.......what it comes down to is what is more important to you. I fly with great dudes and enjoy going to work. It doesn't always need to come down to money. Because what's the point of making more money if you hate going to work because your flying trips with a bunch of jacks.

What it comes down to is what you want with your QOL. And reality is, no matter who someone chooses to stay with we as pilots should not question it. It's not our life, but their's. If someone chooses to stay with a non legacy why question it. Why discount their ability. Why not just say congrats on finding a place they like to be and move on. Seriously guys, we spend way too much time on *ick measuring......get over it already.

Honestly if you are looking 30 years into the future the only ones I see as "stable" would be the big 3 plus southwest. Any of the other JetBlue, Virgin, Spirit, Frontier will not look the same in the future. They will have been merged/bought etc.... So as far as stability goes I would steer clear of them, not too say that one of the big three or SWA couldn't go under but it's less likely.

I'm pretty sure they said that about SW a decade or so ago. :cool:

30 years from now would be retirement age for me (35 now). I understand that any of them could change the way look, I just want to still be employed with a seniority number. Legacies and majors have changed just as much in the passed 10 years; AW/US, NW/DL, UA/C, SW/AT, TWA/AA, US/AA, Frontier has changed their whole image, Spirit transition in 2007... Bottom line is they all still have jobs, albeit some fared better than others in regards to integration.
I'm mostly afraid of starting over at age 50.

Hi Chip,

When I was 15 years old I took my first FAA medical so I could do my first solo on my 16th birthday. I asked the wise old AME to give me the class 1 physical, and also asked him if he thought I could hold a class 1 all the way to 60! To this day I don't know how he managed to stifle his laughter, but he did say "young man, you have your whole life ahead of you, anything can happen. It's your job to make it happen the way you want it to."

Well, I'm a soon to retire senior skipper wearing a gray shirt and no tie. I started out decades ago wanting to be a Pan Am pilot. No, I wouldn't leave VX right now due to my age and number, but I certainly couldn't tell you what this place is going to become when you retire. It most likely will be another 'remember that airline' name like National, Western and even Pan Am.

OTOH, it sure is nice to work at a place where the passengers are happy and the flight attendants are young. There is change happening here and at jetBlue, we are both ALPA carriers now and setting up for our first contract negotiations.

I was hoping for an aircraft order this past week in Paris, but that didn't happen, so who knows what the progression will be like here in the future. We have legacy guys here that love it, we have regional guys here getting bus time to go to the big league.

Good luck, take the first job offered. If it is with UAL, DAL, AA or WN you are set for a good ride. If it is VX or B6 take it and decide later if you still want to go on.

Combination of age and seniority would make it foolish to leave JB, for me personally.

Nobody has a crystal ball. I was at a legacy 15 years ago. Thought I was set for life. Thought I could retire at 55. Now I'm hoping I'll have enough in retirement funds to retire at 65.

Good luck. You'll find that luck is very prevalent in this field.

GP

The beauty of the big-3 at this point is it seems like their performance is almost immaterial. They can stink it up bad, but just via their size (many refer to the oligopoly) the flying public is stuck with them.
For those pilots that came before, they had to deal with the failed airlines that have eventually become these 3.... But to the new guy that's just history.....

Career progression at the Big 3 is dependent upon retirements. Career progression at VX/JB is dependent upon growth. Gamble wisely.

I'd suggest finding a carrier that has a hub where you want to live and go there. In the end this really is just a roll of the dice and none of us can predict who will still be employed in 30 years.