JB, VX pilots.
06-21-2015, 06:21 PM
#1
Layover Master
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,310
JB, VX pilots.
Current JetBlue and Virgin America pilots:
How many of you fully plan on staying at your present employer and not leaving for a legacy?
Not creating a flame war, just honestly interested.
If you plan on staying, why?
The legacies seemingly offer more stability and job protection (yes, I know not always but overall this is true). They also offer more money, both in outright pay scales, but also in work rules and retirements. Furthermore, they currently offer more aircraft, routes and domiciles.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.
On the JB-VX side, I see a marvelous product that the customers love; a product that I could stand behind and be proud of. These carriers also have room for future growth, shorter upgrade times and a younger crowd with a more fun attitude. However, the pay is less, as is the retirement, work rules and medical benefits. Yes, both companies have recently become card carrying ALPA members, so maybe there will be a positive change.
Anyway, curious for your answers. Personally, I believe I would be much happier flying for JB or VX on a day to day basis, but at what cost? And thinking 30 years into the future... Who knows. That said, competitive apps are in at all three.
Chip.
How many of you fully plan on staying at your present employer and not leaving for a legacy?
Not creating a flame war, just honestly interested.
If you plan on staying, why?
The legacies seemingly offer more stability and job protection (yes, I know not always but overall this is true). They also offer more money, both in outright pay scales, but also in work rules and retirements. Furthermore, they currently offer more aircraft, routes and domiciles.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.
On the JB-VX side, I see a marvelous product that the customers love; a product that I could stand behind and be proud of. These carriers also have room for future growth, shorter upgrade times and a younger crowd with a more fun attitude. However, the pay is less, as is the retirement, work rules and medical benefits. Yes, both companies have recently become card carrying ALPA members, so maybe there will be a positive change.
Anyway, curious for your answers. Personally, I believe I would be much happier flying for JB or VX on a day to day basis, but at what cost? And thinking 30 years into the future... Who knows. That said, competitive apps are in at all three.
Chip.
06-21-2015, 07:12 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Current JetBlue and Virgin America pilots:
How many of you fully plan on staying at your present employer and not leaving for a legacy?
Not creating a flame war, just honestly interested.
If you plan on staying, why?
The legacies seemingly offer more stability and job protection (yes, I know not always but overall this is true). They also offer more money, both in outright pay scales, but also in work rules and retirements. Furthermore, they currently offer more aircraft, routes and domiciles.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.
On the JB-VX side, I see a marvelous product that the customers love; a product that I could stand behind and be proud of. These carriers also have room for future growth, shorter upgrade times and a younger crowd with a more fun attitude. However, the pay is less, as is the retirement, work rules and medical benefits. Yes, both companies have recently become card carrying ALPA members, so maybe there will be a positive change.
Anyway, curious for your answers. Personally, I believe I would be much happier flying for JB or VX on a day to day basis, but at what cost? And thinking 30 years into the future... Who knows. That said, competitive apps are in at all three.
Chip.
How many of you fully plan on staying at your present employer and not leaving for a legacy?
Not creating a flame war, just honestly interested.
If you plan on staying, why?
The legacies seemingly offer more stability and job protection (yes, I know not always but overall this is true). They also offer more money, both in outright pay scales, but also in work rules and retirements. Furthermore, they currently offer more aircraft, routes and domiciles.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.
On the JB-VX side, I see a marvelous product that the customers love; a product that I could stand behind and be proud of. These carriers also have room for future growth, shorter upgrade times and a younger crowd with a more fun attitude. However, the pay is less, as is the retirement, work rules and medical benefits. Yes, both companies have recently become card carrying ALPA members, so maybe there will be a positive change.
Anyway, curious for your answers. Personally, I believe I would be much happier flying for JB or VX on a day to day basis, but at what cost? And thinking 30 years into the future... Who knows. That said, competitive apps are in at all three.
Chip.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.
06-21-2015, 07:13 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Babysitter
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Current JetBlue and Virgin America pilots:
How many of you fully plan on staying at your present employer and not leaving for a legacy?
Not creating a flame war, just honestly interested.
If you plan on staying, why?
The legacies seemingly offer more stability and job protection (yes, I know not always but overall this is true). They also offer more money, both in outright pay scales, but also in work rules and retirements. Furthermore, they currently offer more aircraft, routes and domiciles.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.
On the JB-VX side, I see a marvelous product that the customers love; a product that I could stand behind and be proud of. These carriers also have room for future growth, shorter upgrade times and a younger crowd with a more fun attitude. However, the pay is less, as is the retirement, work rules and medical benefits. Yes, both companies have recently become card carrying ALPA members, so maybe there will be a positive change.
Anyway, curious for your answers. Personally, I believe I would be much happier flying for JB or VX on a day to day basis, but at what cost? And thinking 30 years into the future... Who knows. That said, competitive apps are in at all three.
Chip.
How many of you fully plan on staying at your present employer and not leaving for a legacy?
Not creating a flame war, just honestly interested.
If you plan on staying, why?
The legacies seemingly offer more stability and job protection (yes, I know not always but overall this is true). They also offer more money, both in outright pay scales, but also in work rules and retirements. Furthermore, they currently offer more aircraft, routes and domiciles.
On the other hand, the legacies also offer a largely abysmal product, embarrassing regional partners, horrendous on-time performance, old, crotchety, entitled flight attendants and many grumpy, disenfranchised old pilots.
On the JB-VX side, I see a marvelous product that the customers love; a product that I could stand behind and be proud of. These carriers also have room for future growth, shorter upgrade times and a younger crowd with a more fun attitude. However, the pay is less, as is the retirement, work rules and medical benefits. Yes, both companies have recently become card carrying ALPA members, so maybe there will be a positive change.
Anyway, curious for your answers. Personally, I believe I would be much happier flying for JB or VX on a day to day basis, but at what cost? And thinking 30 years into the future... Who knows. That said, competitive apps are in at all three.
Chip.
....not to mention I'm not interested in flying for the military after the military. And our upgrade is 3-4 years.......what it comes down to is what is more important to you. I fly with great dudes and enjoy going to work. It doesn't always need to come down to money. Because what's the point of making more money if you hate going to work because your flying trips with a bunch of jacks. What it comes down to is what you want with your QOL. And reality is, no matter who someone chooses to stay with we as pilots should not question it. It's not our life, but their's. If someone chooses to stay with a non legacy why question it. Why discount their ability. Why not just say congrats on finding a place they like to be and move on. Seriously guys, we spend way too much time on *ick measuring......get over it already.
Last edited by WARich; 06-21-2015 at 07:24 PM.
06-21-2015, 07:26 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 657
Honestly if you are looking 30 years into the future the only ones I see as "stable" would be the big 3 plus southwest. Any of the other JetBlue, Virgin, Spirit, Frontier will not look the same in the future. They will have been merged/bought etc.... So as far as stability goes I would steer clear of them, not too say that one of the big three or SWA couldn't go under but it's less likely.
06-21-2015, 07:31 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Babysitter
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by flyingpuma1
Honestly if you are looking 30 years into the future the only ones I see as "stable" would be the big 3 plus southwest. Any of the other JetBlue, Virgin, Spirit, Frontier will not look the same in the future. They will have been merged/bought etc.... So as far as stability goes I would steer clear of them, not too say that one of the big three or SWA couldn't go under but it's less likely.
06-21-2015, 07:38 PM
#6
Layover Master
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,310
30 years from now would be retirement age for me (35 now). I understand that any of them could change the way look, I just want to still be employed with a seniority number. Legacies and majors have changed just as much in the passed 10 years; AW/US, NW/DL, UA/C, SW/AT, TWA/AA, US/AA, Frontier has changed their whole image, Spirit transition in 2007... Bottom line is they all still have jobs, albeit some fared better than others in regards to integration.
I'm mostly afraid of starting over at age 50.
I'm mostly afraid of starting over at age 50.
06-21-2015, 08:47 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 401
Hi Chip,
When I was 15 years old I took my first FAA medical so I could do my first solo on my 16th birthday. I asked the wise old AME to give me the class 1 physical, and also asked him if he thought I could hold a class 1 all the way to 60! To this day I don't know how he managed to stifle his laughter, but he did say "young man, you have your whole life ahead of you, anything can happen. It's your job to make it happen the way you want it to."
Well, I'm a soon to retire senior skipper wearing a gray shirt and no tie. I started out decades ago wanting to be a Pan Am pilot. No, I wouldn't leave VX right now due to my age and number, but I certainly couldn't tell you what this place is going to become when you retire. It most likely will be another 'remember that airline' name like National, Western and even Pan Am.
OTOH, it sure is nice to work at a place where the passengers are happy and the flight attendants are young. There is change happening here and at jetBlue, we are both ALPA carriers now and setting up for our first contract negotiations.
I was hoping for an aircraft order this past week in Paris, but that didn't happen, so who knows what the progression will be like here in the future. We have legacy guys here that love it, we have regional guys here getting bus time to go to the big league.
Good luck, take the first job offered. If it is with UAL, DAL, AA or WN you are set for a good ride. If it is VX or B6 take it and decide later if you still want to go on.
When I was 15 years old I took my first FAA medical so I could do my first solo on my 16th birthday. I asked the wise old AME to give me the class 1 physical, and also asked him if he thought I could hold a class 1 all the way to 60! To this day I don't know how he managed to stifle his laughter, but he did say "young man, you have your whole life ahead of you, anything can happen. It's your job to make it happen the way you want it to."
Well, I'm a soon to retire senior skipper wearing a gray shirt and no tie. I started out decades ago wanting to be a Pan Am pilot. No, I wouldn't leave VX right now due to my age and number, but I certainly couldn't tell you what this place is going to become when you retire. It most likely will be another 'remember that airline' name like National, Western and even Pan Am.
OTOH, it sure is nice to work at a place where the passengers are happy and the flight attendants are young. There is change happening here and at jetBlue, we are both ALPA carriers now and setting up for our first contract negotiations.
I was hoping for an aircraft order this past week in Paris, but that didn't happen, so who knows what the progression will be like here in the future. We have legacy guys here that love it, we have regional guys here getting bus time to go to the big league.
Good luck, take the first job offered. If it is with UAL, DAL, AA or WN you are set for a good ride. If it is VX or B6 take it and decide later if you still want to go on.
06-22-2015, 03:52 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: JetRight, JetLeft
Posts: 760
Combination of age and seniority would make it foolish to leave JB, for me personally.
Nobody has a crystal ball. I was at a legacy 15 years ago. Thought I was set for life. Thought I could retire at 55. Now I'm hoping I'll have enough in retirement funds to retire at 65.
Good luck. You'll find that luck is very prevalent in this field.
GP
Nobody has a crystal ball. I was at a legacy 15 years ago. Thought I was set for life. Thought I could retire at 55. Now I'm hoping I'll have enough in retirement funds to retire at 65.
Good luck. You'll find that luck is very prevalent in this field.
GP
06-22-2015, 04:01 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: CA
Posts: 1,210
Originally Posted by flyingpuma1
Honestly if you are looking 30 years into the future the only ones I see as "stable" would be the big 3 plus southwest. Any of the other JetBlue, Virgin, Spirit, Frontier will not look the same in the future. They will have been merged/bought etc.... So as far as stability goes I would steer clear of them, not too say that one of the big three or SWA couldn't go under but it's less likely.
For those pilots that came before, they had to deal with the failed airlines that have eventually become these 3.... But to the new guy that's just history.....
06-22-2015, 04:44 AM
#10
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,583
Career progression at the Big 3 is dependent upon retirements. Career progression at VX/JB is dependent upon growth. Gamble wisely.
I'd suggest finding a carrier that has a hub where you want to live and go there. In the end this really is just a roll of the dice and none of us can predict who will still be employed in 30 years.
I'd suggest finding a carrier that has a hub where you want to live and go there. In the end this really is just a roll of the dice and none of us can predict who will still be employed in 30 years.
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