MbusiHlatsh

Hi everyone. Just an aspiring pilot looking for some input about long haul pilots vs short or medium haul. I've always wanted to fly international routes when I eventually start my aviation career. I was wondering about how long does it usually take to be able to fly long haul international routes. Do you usually start domestic and as you move up the seniority list you can pick and choose with aircraft / routes you wish to fly? Thanks!

full of luv

It really depends. In the US you would GENERALLY fly domestic copilot, then international copilot, domestic captain, and then international captain.

That being said there are many career paths that would be nearly all international from new hire, i.e. mostly cargo carriers.

There are also some companies that only fly domestic narrow body aircraft and may never even have the capability to fly international.

CaptYoda

Everything at a unionized airline is seniority based. Your seniority determines everything and rules your life. If you are either senior enough to bid the equipment/type of flying or if no one senior to you wants it, it's all yours!

aa73

The correct (and body friendly) way to do it is to get your international flying done early in your career when still young, then as you get older and your body starts protesting, slowly start ratcheting that type of flying down until, your last few years left, all you are doing are domestic turns. Time zone changes and irregular sleep patterns shorten your life. Guaranteed. The older you get the worse it is.

I started out domestically, then went international while still relatively young (35.) I only lasted 5 years, then had enough. Today all I do is domestic narrow body (737) even though I'm a pretty senior FO (15 years) and can hold those 777 international "lucrative" routes. I plan to remain a domestic NB pilot my whole career. Ever since I made the switch back to domestic narrow body, I've had more rest, sleep, and felt much more refreshed and rejuvenated. There is something to be said for staying in the good old US of A and keeping more normal flying hours.

I do work slightly more days than the intl guys (15 vs 11-12) but the payoff is that I don't finish a long intl trip and then am out for the next two days at home trying to recover.

I'm also a little different than most airline guys in that I really do enjoy 2-3 legs a day of takeoffs/landings. Keeps the job fun and challenging. I usually get the look of utter shock when I mention this but it's the truth. I hate autopiloting for 12 hours....boring!

To each their own...this is just my take. I do think everyone should definitely try intl, it's a bucket list thing and most guys like it due to the $$$ and time off...but to me it is much more important to stay healthy and keep normal sleep patterns in the long run, since we pilots already face lower life expectancy than the regular population to begin with.

Like the guys above said - seniority is all that matters as far as when you can bid intl. In good times with a lot of movement, you will hold it immediately as a new hire. AA, DL and UA all hire (or have hired) straight into intl 767 and similar bid statuses. Funnily enough, Miami intl 767 is one of our most junior bid statuses due to the crappy variety of flying (all nighters to Deep South America, ugh.) In crappy times when there is shrinkage and furloughs,as a general rule, intl will go more senior.

Good luck when you get here!

CaptYoda

Well said!

Sliceback

On a day basis the senior most long haul flights pay 2.7x as much money as the pay you'd earn on many of the smaller trips.

So after you have 20,000 hrs, been a professional pilot for 30 years, a lot of guys choose $25K in 9 days over $20K in 18 days.

P.S. The 9 day trips? Half the time is spent napping, reading, or watching a movie while in flight. There's a reason it goes very senior.

ShyGuy

How does Les Abend do it?

PotatoChip

100% agree with aa73. I'll take transcons or 2-3 legs over continuous long haul. It flat out drains me. I've been doing it for three years and if I find a way to make a positive change I will.

crxpilot

Domestic is easier and you don't have to deal with international BS. Plus I like to be in a country that has a habeas corpus!

f10a

Contrary to popular belief, the USA is not the only "land of the free" nor the "leader of the free world". For from it really.

Go out and see the world while you can or until you're sick of waking up in a hotel and taking a few minutes to figure out where you are.