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LCC's What's a guy to do?

Old 02-23-2007, 05:02 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
Sky, you have a lot of heart and I know you post on here out of a sense of responsibility, but don't waste time villifying a few who made it and therefore have to decide the fate of lesser pilots. In their hearts they wish to be fair. Favoritism is like the wind: it can blow in any direction, and as long as there are people having to decide things there will be fair and unfair decisions. Just strive to be true to yourself and when things get sour as they perhaps did for you let it go and strive for clarity and inner quality. I would argue that is the real thing to be had, it transcends flying, and it is all you take with you. I have to work in an office all day which I hate. I long for the sky, and when it comes time I'll try for a regional class. But if I can tolerate the office for what seems like an eternity while I build time and contacts, then you can forgive a few chief pilots for being human.
I hear with what you are saying and agree wholeheartedly with it. I hold nothing against anyone who uses the resources available to them. Nepotism and the old boy networks are the way the world turns. I was mainly pointing out that piloting skills and experience alone really have little bearing on ones success as a pilot. It is unfair but life isn't fair.

We are all raised to believe that if you are the best and prove yourself the opportunity you desire will come your way and that simply isn't true. From my earliest memories all I have ever wanted to do was to fly for Alaska Airlines. I threw everything I had into the effort for nearly 20 years and so did my friends to little effect.

My father was an aerospace engineer and a good one. He never had to go looking for a job, they found him. He had poor people skills and made few professional fiends but the head hunters kept calling. I grew up thinking that if I was a good pilot and put in efforts to be the best I could then the world would come knocking. Well, it hasn't. I am not angry at anyone. I am disappointed the the profession and the system as a whole. My failure was that my father possessed skills and abilities that few others could replicate. As a pilot I was one of thousands and we can only fly one plane at a time.

My best chance for career satisfaction now will come from a west coast start up.

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Old 02-23-2007, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MX442 View Post
SkyHigh,

I once met a pilot whom flew for National, while on a trip to Vegas... As I talked to him, he even offered to help me get my stuff in with National to get some "heavy jet time" in so I could go to Alaska.... This is networking... I'll bet a nickel you are the gentleman I talked to (maybe I'm wrong). He, (or possibly you?) was willing to help a fellow colleague. AS was the ONLY airline I ever wanted to work for. Well, AS shot me down in 2003, and I was let down. After that, I didn't want to ever go through another application process again, or try another carrier. I re-applied at AS and never heard a word, so I gave up. I've never sent out any apps since, and have had my eyes shut to opportunity.

Fast forward to 2007... I had a UPS jumpseater on one of my flights. I told him I'm very interested in UPS, but I have no contacts.. None... He said he'd be happy to help me out. I haven't talked with him too much yet, but it's a start... He told me to be persistent and get someone, or himself to drop my name with HR. I thought I'd never get a chance at the elite carriers either, and then this guy came alone. I couldn't believe it. Another pilot I work with just got on with FedEx by coincidentally meeting another FedEx pilot to be their sponsor. If this is what it takes, I'll be talking to every jumpseater I meet from now on!

The point I'm trying to make is that I thought I could never network or find anybody on the "inside". I found out that all I had to do is ask... Be persistent, network, and good luck!
I have always tried to be a sponsor for others. Sometimes it doesn't work out so well but that is life. We are in a mini interview with everyone we meet on a daily basis. You never know where your next opportunity will come from. I talked to every jumpseater and collected business cards.

I even have a few good friends at Alaska Airlines who have offered to help. Alaska Airlines is highly sought after. I am told that they are only hiring around 100 per year. Most of those seats are being filled by military superstars and from the sons and daughters program. Unless your contacts are willing to actively campaign for you and have some real political influence there isn't much of a chance.

Years ago I was working as an Alaskan bush pilot and would occasionally run across ERA (regional airline) pilots. Often upon and within minutes of introductions the sons of Alaska Airlines pilots would announce themselves. They would say something like "daddy thinks I need to stay here till I reach 2000 hours, then he will get me in at Alaska". At first I would think "this guy is nuts" then soon after I would pass then in the ANC terminal wearing an Alaska Airlines uniform. My friends and I risked our lives daily to work our way towards an opportunity like that. We sacrificed the days of our lives to live in miserable conditions for more than a decade dreaming of the day when we could have an opportunity to stride through the airport in a clean white shirt with an Alaska Airlines logo on our hats. Two of my closest friends died in airplane accidents because they lacked the contacts needed to advance in a timely manner.

In my experience I believe that persistence is good but it can also get you killed. At some point we all need to cut our losses. I wish someone would have told us all in flight school that unless your father is a major airline pilot you will suffer, loose and most likely will end up holding an empty bag. A few lucky Joe's find their way in. At my age and situation I can not afford to risk anymore waiting for a slim chance.

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Old 02-23-2007, 02:22 PM
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If Alaska is such a sought after job, then why did they just drop the turbine PIC requirements for Horizon pilots.

Let me answer that for you. Alaska now realizes if they hire people with no PIC, that new-hire won't bail after spending 3 years on reserve and no hope of upgrading for at least nine.

Also, we don't wear hats anymore.
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Old 02-23-2007, 03:34 PM
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I'm not sure where you live sky, but you could try to work your way in to the "country club" in Seattle. Tons of the Continental pilots based in Houston live in the same neighborhood. If somebody wanted to work for CAL, their best bet would be to buy a house there and start meeting their "neighbors." Obviously buying a house to get a job at Alaska is a little overkill, but you get the idea. Go play golf where they do, drink at the bars they frequent. Unless you have a real personality defect (like perhaps complaining too much) you should be able to make the connections that you so desperately want.

I wish the best to you. There is a lot of hiring coming up in the next ten years so if flying is what makes you happy then go for it. We only get one shot here on this planet so you might as well go all out. Good luck.
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UWpilot View Post
If Alaska is such a sought after job, then why did they just drop the turbine PIC requirements for Horizon pilots.

Let me answer that for you. Alaska now realizes if they hire people with no PIC, that new-hire won't bail after spending 3 years on reserve and no hope of upgrading for at least nine.

Also, we don't wear hats anymore.
No, I think they realized that QX captains aren't applying because of their junk contract... QX FO's, can make their money back by year 2. But as a Captain, we're better off going to SW. On RJ Captain pay, it takes 12-15 years to break even when you factor in the 401(k) match.
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by duvie View Post
I'm not sure where you live sky, but you could try to work your way in to the "country club" in Seattle. Tons of the Continental pilots based in Houston live in the same neighborhood. If somebody wanted to work for CAL, their best bet would be to buy a house there and start meeting their "neighbors." Obviously buying a house to get a job at Alaska is a little overkill, but you get the idea. Go play golf where they do, drink at the bars they frequent. Unless you have a real personality defect (like perhaps complaining too much) you should be able to make the connections that you so desperately want.

I wish the best to you. There is a lot of hiring coming up in the next ten years so if flying is what makes you happy then go for it. We only get one shot here on this planet so you might as well go all out. Good luck.
I greatly appreciate the suggestions, however I actually do have several guys who I could call on that could walk my resume in. In addition, I have already had two interviews with Alaska and feel I aced them both. The problem is that during times when Alaska Airlines is only hiring around one hundred per year or less those spots are all taken by the prime military superstars and from friends and family. In order for an average joe to have a chance Alaska Airlines needs to hit 200 to 300 new hires per year before they run out of internal hires and have to reach ourside of the club.

At my age I can't afford to wait around for the stars to align in order to get another crack at it. If circumstances change I will definately give it my all, however once I reach 45 or so the benifits of an airline career begin to rapidly race to zero. At the current age 60 rule I would have perhaps 3 years in the left seat before retirement. I am not about to throw away the best part of my life for that. Honestly that ship has sailed for me years ago, but a guy can still dream.

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Old 02-23-2007, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MX442 View Post
No, I think they realized that QX captains aren't applying because of their junk contract... QX FO's, can make their money back by year 2. But as a Captain, we're better off going to SW. On RJ Captain pay, it takes 12-15 years to break even when you factor in the 401(k) match.
I couldn't agree with you more. I would definitely jump on SWA before Alaska. However, we will be making SWA $$$ again. It might take a few years, but if the anglers want anything that closely resembles an airline they will come to their senses and pay up.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by UWpilot View Post
I couldn't agree with you more. I would definitely jump on SWA before Alaska. However, we will be making SWA $$$ again. It might take a few years, but if the anglers want anything that closely resembles an airline they will come to their senses and pay up.
Making SWA $$$ again? Like you said, it might take a few years. Remember the phrase: "The bull walks up the stairs, but the bear jumps out the window." With nearly $40k cut for everyone, I bet the bull will take it's ol' sweet time to climb to the tenth floor... Right now AS ranks about 4th for 737/A320 pay scales. A $7-$10 per hour raise will put you in 2nd place behind SWA. I don't see you getting another $45/hour in one fell swoop. Yes, you'll probably be making SWA's current wages again, but my prediction is not for another 10 years... Inflation and cost of living in SEA and LAX will outpace what you will get back. I won't believe it until I see it. --UW, I'm not taking a hit at you, I'm just frustrated with AAG's decisions over the last 5 years.... I wish you guys the best of luck to get your contract back, but it will take time. Menzies... AAR heavy Mx, etc... They're still looking for the cheapest bidder. Heck, before long ERJ 190's will probably show up on the property... with Chataqua pilots .

I put my life on hold for many, many years waiting for AS. I moved away from the PNW rain. Now I've seen the sunshine and have no desire to go back, or wait for AS to get better pay... Heck, in Texas I can get twice the house for half the money than SEA.

Last edited by MX442; 02-24-2007 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 02-24-2007, 07:15 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by UWpilot View Post
If Alaska is such a sought after job, then why did they just drop the turbine PIC requirements for Horizon pilots.

Let me answer that for you. Alaska now realizes if they hire people with no PIC, that new-hire won't bail after spending 3 years on reserve and no hope of upgrading for at least nine.

Also, we don't wear hats anymore.
What are the Alaska mins for Horizon pilots?
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:30 PM
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Supposedly the mins are going to go down to 2000 SIC at Horizon. No official announcement yet. Alaska is doing a large interview group on Feb 27 & 28. Several Horizon Captains are in that group.....All of them aren't military or legacy people, SkyHigh.
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