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Old 02-22-2008, 06:45 PM   #101  
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Well, i hope that's not how most nwa newb feels they should be above 500 DAL newb from last year. I can sleep tight tonight knowing newb from both sides won't be able to vote this thing through, cuz I would be content with DOH for anybody hired after 9/11.

I keep forget who's the acquiring company...But hey, i do think this merger is coming, and we better all play together, or we'll lose a great time to improve our contracts.
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:59 PM   #102  
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For clarification no one is talking about stapling anybody to the bottom of any seniority list. That was disinformation. This isn't SWA or AMR type merger. This is two major airlines both of whom are bringing a lot to the table but first let us understand why there is a seniority differential between NWA and Delta when both have hired and furloughed at the same time (baring the recent new hires). As well discussed DAL senior pilots took their lump sum and ran in droves. NWA did not terminate its pension just froze it and did so before NWA went into bankruptcy. NWA never had a lump sum option, if we had, we would have seen pilots take their money and run in droves also, thus mass seniority gains. Our senior pilots have their monthly pension plan frozen close to what they would have been paid if the pension plan would have never been frozen. (with respect to paycuts and pension formula of one's best 60 months in past ten years). Thus, for the next five-seven years the pilots hitting 60 can collect (7-13k) a month (pending pilot/yrs of service/equip etc). The average age of NWA pilot is closing on 53 ergo we are going to have half of our 5000 pilot seniority list hit sixty in the next seven years. So, if merged, either way the pilots at DAL will get another windfall of movement. I am a 12 year pilot at NWA and I have talked with several of my buddies at NWA and DAL and it seems that we all would be content with an equitable integration mixing respecting relative seniority and DOH. (96 hire not behind a 98 dal hire etc. but something reasonable.)

Further, Northwest has 68 787s on order (an airplane that will be double crewed) where Delta only has 12 777 on order. Further, the parking of DC-9's is somewhat of a neutral issue as we do not have the crews to fly them anyway. They are still upgrading people to captain and zero displacements are projected. Let me be specific. Our airline is 18% understaffed right now and it gets worse by the day. We had 83 new hires by this January however we had 119 pilots retire or resign in the same period, thus we lost 36 net pilots. So, that should calm some junior guys fears.

Pilots historically have acted in their own self interests which in a macro way has hurt our profession. I hope that this will not be the case with DAL/NWA and that a fair/equitable solution is found even if it means guys like me lose a year or so in seniority.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:03 PM   #103  
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NSL, NSL, NSL, NSL, NSL, NSL!!!

And a new ALPA merger policy:

1. No bump and flush.
2. Merge seniority lists by ALPA number.

Period.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:12 PM   #104  
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[QUOTE=Fishfreighter;
2. Merge seniority lists by ALPA number.

Period.[/QUOTE]

Right so I can be displaced by a guy who was flying an rj when I was doing time in the desert.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:16 PM   #105  
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Right so I can be displaced by a guy who was flying an rj when I was doing time in the desert.
Nope. You never lose your ALPA number. Do you have one?
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:25 PM   #106  
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Yes, but while I was serving in the military sans alpa #, another person was flying for a regional with and alpa #. I get hired by a major while the other person is still flying for a regional, so I'm jr to him under alpa national? I agree with the principle of what you are saying, but I believe that just opens up another series of complex issues.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:48 PM   #107  
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No it doesn't. He's been paying dues to ALPA the entire time you were in the military.

Therefore, he's a SENIOR ALPA pilot even though that seniority was at a Regional carrier.

You chose the military route (as did I), he chose the civilian route. He's been paying dues. You have not. Why shouldn't he jump ahead?
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:43 AM   #108  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter View Post
No it doesn't. He's been paying dues to ALPA the entire time you were in the military.

Therefore, he's a SENIOR ALPA pilot even though that seniority was at a Regional carrier.

You chose the military route (as did I), he chose the civilian route. He's been paying dues. You have not. Why shouldn't he jump ahead?
Don't think you meant to say MIL guys haven't been paying "dues". So if I read your post correctly, someone who just got hired by a regional with 500 hours or less but who has an ALPA card should be senior to any military trained aviator? Did we (including you) not pay dues?

Don't think there is a panacea for this seniority issue.
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Old 02-23-2008, 04:43 AM   #109  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter View Post
No it doesn't. He's been paying dues to ALPA the entire time you were in the military.

Therefore, he's a SENIOR ALPA pilot even though that seniority was at a Regional carrier.

You chose the military route (as did I), he chose the civilian route. He's been paying dues. You have not. Why shouldn't he jump ahead?
Are you saying that senority should be based on how much you've paid ALPA over the years?
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:01 AM   #110  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter View Post
No it doesn't. He's been paying dues to ALPA the entire time you were in the military.

Therefore, he's a SENIOR ALPA pilot even though that seniority was at a Regional carrier.

You chose the military route (as did I), he chose the civilian route. He's been paying dues. You have not. Why shouldn't he jump ahead?
The only way to make this fair is if I"m issued an ALPA card when I"m winged. I don't know how much ALPA representation will help at an FEB.
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