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Old 02-23-2008, 05:33 AM   #111  
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Originally Posted by Fishfreighter View Post
NSL, NSL, NSL, NSL, NSL, NSL!!!

And a new ALPA merger policy:

1. No bump and flush.
2. Merge seniority lists by ALPA number.

Period.
What happens if you're not an ALPA carrier (AA, SWA, AirTran, etc)???
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Old 02-23-2008, 06:07 AM   #112  
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NSL is a cute idea in theory but would never work. Someone could fly corporate or at a company that doesnt have ALPA and then get hired at a Major with ALPA, so should those people go straight to the bottom?
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Old 02-23-2008, 08:47 AM   #113  
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Further, Northwest has 68 787s on order (an airplane that will be double crewed) where Delta only has 12 777 on order. Further, the parking of DC-9's is somewhat of a neutral issue as we do not have the crews to fly them anyway.
I thought that the 787 order was for 18 firm with 50 options? Can't an option be cancelled as easily as it can be converted to a firm order.

Are the DC-9's parked now or are they flying? If they are flying now I don't see how you don't count them.

I see you also left out the 10 737's DAL begins taking delivery of in July, and the fact that we are still taking delivery of the 17 ex TWA 757's. You also left out the retirement of some of your 747-200's.

Look, I'm not saying what's right or wrong and am not looking for a windfall here, but in this part of your post you seem to take alot of liberty with the information you gave and left out.
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Old 02-23-2008, 08:54 AM   #114  
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Don't think you meant to say MIL guys haven't been paying "dues". So if I read your post correctly, someone who just got hired by a regional with 500 hours or less but who has an ALPA card should be senior to any military trained aviator? Did we (including you) not pay dues?.
C'mon man, no one said military guys haven't "paid their dues." You know as well as I that he meant literally, as in his monthly $$ dues to the union.

I'm not making any kind of statement as to whether the previous poster's proposal about an ALPA seniority list is a good one or not, but don't twist someone's words around.
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:12 AM   #115  
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747-200 are doing military charter flying for the next 18 months and there are only two of them.
DC-9s are complex because many of them are placed as spares. Marketing tried to pull 30 out of the desert and then shortly thereafter announced the parking of 40 or so but thirty never made it out of the desert (lack of crews to fly them). Point being we are still upgrading pilots to Captain on the 9 even with this announcement.

As for the airplanes Delta are getting, that is great, I didn't know, the more the merrier, however each company has planes that are getting older. I.E Delta older 767s which is why more 330s are being sought.

My point being, along with attrition, NWA brings a lot to the table with a significant amount of widebody flying/exclusive rights in NRT. Since the merger of USAir and America West NWA now has the oldest seniority list in the industry, barring maybe aeroflot. I also believe DAL brings a lot to the table, as well, I am just advocating a mindset of fair and equitable over imposed super seniority. Since the talks have been kept very closed who knows how close or how far apart the two MECs are from reaching an agreement.
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:35 AM   #116  
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Ok,

I can see how you might say I was twisting his words. I don't agree with your assessment, but I can see it.

He implied that paying dues $$ to ALPA trumps dues paid to aviation in any other capacity. I don't think that is a good idea. I also don't see how it would work for a NSL if all air carriers aren't represented by ALPA.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:08 AM   #117  
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747-200 are doing military charter flying for the next 18 months and there are only two of them.
DC-9s are complex because many of them are placed as spares. Marketing tried to pull 30 out of the desert and then shortly thereafter announced the parking of 40 or so but thirty never made it out of the desert (lack of crews to fly them). Point being we are still upgrading pilots to Captain on the 9 even with this announcement.

As for the airplanes Delta are getting, that is great, I didn't know, the more the merrier, however each company has planes that are getting older. I.E Delta older 767s which is why more 330s are being sought.

My point being, along with attrition, NWA brings a lot to the table with a significant amount of widebody flying/exclusive rights in NRT. Since the merger of USAir and America West NWA now has the oldest seniority list in the industry, barring maybe aeroflot. I also believe DAL brings a lot to the table, as well, I am just advocating a mindset of fair and equitable over imposed super seniority. Since the talks have been kept very closed who knows how close or how far apart the two MECs are from reaching an agreement.
OK, on the 747's I was just going by what APC says. It says 3 74's retired this year, which I assumed meant in the next 10 months but whatever.

DC-9's, yeah that sounds complex so I'll just let it be.

You do have me lost on the 767 - 330 comment though. According to our president, they're doing just fine. Fine enough that the costs of replacing them with 787's isn't justified right now. Now, who knows what's really true. But according to you, DAL is looking to get rid of 767's and/or buy Airbuses? I mean we are still 2 seperate companies as of today as far as I knew, or do you have some inside info?

As far as your last paragraph, totally with you.

Last edited by Jay5150; 02-23-2008 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:09 AM   #118  
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Well, i hope that's not how most nwa newb feels they should be above 500 DAL newb from last year. I can sleep tight tonight knowing newb from both sides won't be able to vote this thing through, cuz I would be content with DOH for anybody hired after 9/11.

I keep forget who's the acquiring company...But hey, i do think this merger is coming, and we better all play together, or we'll lose a great time to improve our contracts.

Well, since it's a merger and not an aquisition neither is the acquiring company. And you're right, we as pilots have the ball in our court.
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:48 PM   #119  
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The 747 Freighters are staying for the forseeable future. You are right in that DAL will not be ordering 330s if they stay on their own. NWA is looking for 5 more 330s and my understanding....from whereever, is that the combined company would be looking for more. take it or leave it for what it's worth. Remember Richard Anderson was the one that ordered the 330s when he was at Northwest.

As for the 787 it would not be a 767 replacement, more an augment for 777 and 747. However, if a company were to order the 787 today that company could not have it show up on their property until 2013. Quite a wait.

Last edited by Opus; 02-23-2008 at 01:56 PM. Reason: rumor
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Old 02-23-2008, 02:16 PM   #120  
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Don't think you meant to say MIL guys haven't been paying "dues". So if I read your post correctly, someone who just got hired by a regional with 500 hours or less but who has an ALPA card should be senior to any military trained aviator? Did we (including you) not pay dues?

Don't think there is a panacea for this seniority issue.
Sure, the answer is just to get all the mil pilots into ALPA too. Might help with all this IA business, desk jobs, and disassociated sea tours... (Or might make it worse...)
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