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Old 02-23-2008, 05:58 PM   #121  
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As for the 787 it would not be a 767 replacement, more an augment for 777 and 747.
Maybe for you guys, but for us back when management was talking about the "BIGGEST AIRPLANE ORDER IN HISTORY!", (125 787's is the last rumor I heard) it was to do exactly that: replace the 767's and then some. Course that rumor died out and now they say that the cost doesn't justify it. Then again, maybe they shut all that talk down in anticipation of some big news on the horizon. Maybe something with the potential to bring in lots of fresh capital to spend.

Ah, who am I kidding. That money is probably for the big wig's yacht expenses.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:14 AM   #122  
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No matter what happens I still don't like a merger. There are some of us that came to DAL and didn't even apply to NWA. For me it was their bases and pay. I realize that people wrote that NWA took a bigger pay hit to keep their frozen A plan with a plused up B plan to get them to about a 50% retirement. New NWA hires only get a 5% B plan. DAL seemed to choose the opposite, higher pay and a one-time B-plan plus up of what they earned in the A fund. Now the merged carriers will have two types of pilots flying together, those with and without A plans. Also, the older NWA guys will get their pay back faster by not only coming onto the DAL payscale, but getting more by being on a rumored new/higher merged payscale. Then the question of seniority comes into play where they will be able to hold bigger equipment and their pay jumps even more. I can see why most NWA guys would e pro merger. Alot to gain. DAL seems to be offering equity (shares of stock). The value of which changes daily, can go to zero in a bankruptcy, and what the co will offer will by no means make up for career expectation differences. I'm sure more will go to the older (senior) guys who are less affected but have been with the company the most.

As far as the fleet goes, DAL supposedly had a plan to be an all Boeing fleet by 2015. Now the merger will bring in a bunch of Euro trash that the co did not want. Guess they are changing plans. As far as the DC-9 goes, they are/will be retired faster than replacements can come onboard. Means less jobs in the long run. I can see both cos, merged or not, siphoning more of the domestic feeder flying to the regionals since they seem to be adding 50-70-90 seaters faster. Scope in any contract is key for our survibal. As far as the 787, that program seems continually delayed like the A-380. That 2009 delivery date could easily get pushed to 2010 or later.

There is alot at stake here for both pilot groups. It seems though that NWA has more to gain than lose and there has really been nothing decent announced for the DAL guys, especially the 98-99 hires that the "senior NWA negotiators want stapled to the bottom."
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:40 AM   #123  
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.....As far as the DC-9 goes, they are/will be retired faster than replacements can come onboard.

......especially the 98-99 hires that the "senior NWA negotiators want stapled to the bottom."
Quaile,

Don't believe the hype. I'm sure that after dealing with the Republic/Northwest merger for 20 years that our negotiatiors don't want to "staple" anyone to the bottom of the list.

Also, if you look at the merger analysis that was shared by the company, the DC-9's are very much a part of the plan.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:53 AM   #124  
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Quaile,

Don't believe the hype. I'm sure that after dealing with the Republic/Northwest merger for 20 years that our negotiatiors don't want to "staple" anyone to the bottom of the list.

Also, if you look at the merger analysis that was shared by the company, the DC-9's are very much a part of the plan.
Hope so as shedding over 90 jets in two or three years would not bode well for movement or hiring.
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:09 PM   #125  
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Hope so as shedding over 90 jets in two or three years would not bode well for movement or hiring.

The Fleet VP came in and talked with my class and said the 68 -9s wont be going anywhere until a replacement can be found at NWA not a feeder. Who knows maybe the rumors of the md90s DAL talked about over in china might come true. It was planned to retire some -9s last year and they parked them only to go back to the desert to bring them back. The 9 is the most reliable plane in the fleet and does a good job for its purpose, not to mention its paid for. The VP said those 68 remaining have ALOT of life left if needed and right now they are needed. plus the 68 potential/likely 787 are coming and those 68 require more pilots than the 68 dc9s. IMHO i think the 9's will be around for a few more years. They arent going to shred 90 dc9s and not replace them so that a llc can come in and snag all those routes up. The planes are full, doesnt make sense. And no they cant just replace the 9's with RJs.
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:43 PM   #126  
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It is true DC9s are dirt cheap to operate but they are aging and hence breaks down more often. I commute to MSP and I see it often. Very frustrating. DC9 nonetheless, as you have indicated, cannot be replaced with RJs. For one thing, RJs are no longer economically viable, especially 50 seat RJs. Even CRJ900s and E175 are not that economical and they carry too few seats. Bottom line, I suspect more than few regionals will be gone in the next coming year or so.

All the more reason for you guys who are at the majors to stay firm with a lockdown scope clause. I do not want to see more domestic routes bled out to regionals. Domestic routes flown by DC9s and A319s or B737 should stay as mainline routes with mainline jets flying at mainline pay. I am not planning to stay at a regional at regional pay flying overstretched RJs. Scope Clause will improve my chance of moving up to majors.
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:28 PM   #127  
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All the more reason for you guys who are at the majors to stay firm with a lockdown scope clause. I do not want to see more domestic routes bled out to regionals. Domestic routes flown by DC9s and A319s or B737 should stay as mainline routes with mainline jets flying at mainline pay. I am not planning to stay at a regional at regional pay flying overstretched RJs. Scope Clause will improve my chance of moving up to majors.

Thats how i always looked at it and thats how everyone should look at it imho. The regionals were never meant to be a career airline and the mainline guys should have never let the RJ cat out of the bag in the first place. Hopefully this will be the time for change. Fingers crossed
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:43 PM   #128  
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Thats how i always looked at it and thats how everyone should look at it imho. The regionals were never meant to be a career airline and the mainline guys should have never let the RJ cat out of the bag in the first place. Hopefully this will be the time for change. Fingers crossed
Amen to that. My concern are those management bozos at RAH, Skywest etc who are poised to convert their smaller RJs to ever bigger RJs including E175s. If you let them, guys like BB at RAH will take over all domestic mainline flying with their RJs at regional pay flown by 350 hour wonders from the likes of UND etc.
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:42 PM   #129  
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It's amazing to me how many DAL pilots are stating that NWA pilots are getting such a better deal. How is that? Because a payraise is being thrown at us, less than what I use to make, and we are suppose to throw our seniority out the window? If you read the papers you'll notice that DAL Mec is still in N.Y where our negotiating team has left. It was not our Mec that wanted to staple anybody but the Delta Mec that seems to have promised their membership relative seniority plus 10%.

I am so amazed at how people look down at NWA as if we were second class citizens. Are you kidding? Let me introduce to you some facts about our group.

1) We were the only group to ante-up money monthly to pay for medical coverage for our furloughed pilots.

2) Yes, we did take a bigger cut to protect retired pilots and the soon to be retired from losing an income they had earned. (By the way I have a close friend who retired from Delta in 2003 and is now living in an appartment, as outside of the lump sum he got, his monthly pension is gone. Is that right?) I'd rather make 10% less and hear how inferior we are but know we didn't sell our retired guys down the river.

3) In '98 when we went on strike to end concessionary contracts (remember the SWA guys wouldn't let us jumpseat, being how we were no longer working pilots. Personal experience on this one.) Yes, we did not get the greatest contract but it did illuminate management teams how costly pilot strikes are thus paving the way the UAL and subsequent DAL contract.

4) Now let's talk about Compass. We went out of our way to ensure that regional flying got back onto our seniority list. Protecting future new hires that if they were to get furloughed they would at least have a 65/hr job as a fall back.

The NWA seniority lists is filled, for the most part, with a great group of aviators who have tried to look out for one another. We may have the worst contract in the industry as we focused on scope/pension and many will remind us that we are lowest paid in the industry but our contract doesn't define us.

The reason DAL came to us is that Richard Anderson knows that NWA, with its Pacific presence, is a cash cow. The reason why so many NWA pilots are excited about the potential merger, is not the cash, is because we like Richard Anderson. We liked him when he was at NWA.

Now that talks have broken off why don't you DAL pilots ask yourself the following question?

Who would you rather merge with? United (much younger seniority with little attrition) Continental (well, we have the golden share with them.) UsAir?
NWA has the oldest seniority list with the most widebody flying.

If you're looking for a company that has a great contract why not SWA? They got, what 2001 guys in the left seat. However if you ever go on strike don't count on them for the jumpseat. I couldn't.
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:30 PM   #130  
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1) We were the only group to ante-up money monthly to pay for medical coverage for our furloughed pilots.
Not true, we, (CAL), did that here as well
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