Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-20-2008, 06:43 AM   #21  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer00 View Post
Wholly crap guys...there are a lot of assumptions taken from this article.
True...for all we know, management leaked this story to further divide our pilot groups....when we should be uniting to improve both of our positions!!!

Let's do better than the East/West mess...
Spaceman Spliff is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 06:43 AM   #22  
Can't abide NAI
 
Bucking Bar's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 10,813
Default

Caution - THIS POST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY - and may not even provide any entertainment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer00 View Post
OK, and to be devils advocate...why just every Delta pilot?
and just to fight fire with fire...

The NWA pilots have posted they should get the top 400, or 500, spots because of their 747-400's being bigger than Delta's aircraft. True, ALPA merger policy by paycheck and equipment type supports the NWA claim.

But, if that is true, what does it mean for the A319/320 and DC-9 pilots who's aircraft are smaller than the Delta MD88/90? Those pilots stapled? Either version does not seem "fair" to me.

Here's my version of fair (although no one asked, or is listening, just an opinion).

1. Use some equity money to buy a number of pilots into retirement (roughly the number of pilots getting displaced by the retirement of the DC-9)
2. Merge the company by some sort of ratio that best aligns with current bid & DOH.
3. Put firm fences around bases and equipment types lasting until large numbers of retirements happen
4. Bring the wholly owned subsidiaries on board, stapled below you and me, by DOH at their respective carriers, allowing them to keep their longevity for benefits.
5. Re-write scope to force Delta/NWA to only outsource additional jets to pilots onTHEseniority list.

What do you think? The most important part of that plan in my view is to get the permitted aircraft type operators on the property and on the list. Management's plan to outsource much of NWA's narrowbody flying (we have the same at Delta) should not come at the expense of the pilots any more. It is getting to the point where everything smaller than a 757 is a consideration for outsourcing - it would be good to start that trend the other direction.

Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-20-2008 at 07:04 AM.
Bucking Bar is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 06:43 AM   #23  
Gets Weekends Off
 
StripAlert's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Against
Posts: 273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontier85 View Post
As always the new pilots today want it RIGHT NOW!! 2yr upgrades, 767ERs, even 777. What happened to SO position for 10 yrs then FO. I would have been happy to fly a DC-9 27 yrs ago when I was a new hire.!!
Inflation adjusted, most DAL ER second year guys would probably be happy to sit the panel for the pay you were getting in 1980 and the pension that was supposed to be waiting for you at 60...
StripAlert is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 06:53 AM   #24  
Can't abide NAI
 
Bucking Bar's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 10,813
Default

Yes this article was pretty whacked, although it likely is true. FWIW "thousands" means more than one, so lets say 2,000. Counting new hires that takes Delta back to October 1998 and staples them.

Not going to happen.
Bucking Bar is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 07:05 AM   #25  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: CL604
Posts: 90
Default

Quote:
1. Use some equity money to buy a number of pilots into retirement (roughly the number of pilots getting displaced by the retirement of the DC-9)
I don't disagree with buying people into retirement, but the last I heard, even though some airframes are being parked, people are not being displaced. The increase in utilization of the remaining fleet is keeping the staffing levels as is, actually, why have new hires been placed into the DC9 then? That would be an increase in the staffing level to some degree wouldn't it? Yes, some flying has been shifted to the regional carriers already, and I'm sure more will in the future. But that same case could be made for the 80's at DAL.
Flyer00 is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 07:15 AM   #26  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontier85 View Post
As always the new pilots today want it RIGHT NOW!! 2yr upgrades, 767ERs, even 777. What happened to SO position for 10 yrs then FO. I would have been happy to fly a DC-9 27 yrs ago when I was a new hire.!!
Don't fret. the 10 year SO life style is still alive and well, at NWA, and I want no part of it.
Deez340 is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 07:21 AM   #27  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar View Post
Caution - THIS POST IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY - and may not even provide any entertainment.

and just to fight fire with fire...

The NWA pilots have posted they should get the top 400, or 500, spots because of their 747-400's being bigger than Delta's aircraft. True, ALPA merger policy by paycheck and equipment type supports the NWA claim.

But, if that is true, what does it mean for the A319/320 and DC-9 pilots who's aircraft are smaller than the Delta MD88/90? Those pilots stapled? Either version does not seem "fair" to me.

Here's my version of fair (although no one asked, or is listening, just an opinion).

1. Use some equity money to buy a number of pilots into retirement (roughly the number of pilots getting displaced by the retirement of the DC-9)
2. Merge the company by some sort of ratio that best aligns with current bid & DOH.
3. Put firm fences around bases and equipment types lasting until large numbers of retirements happen
4. Bring the wholly owned subsidiaries on board, stapled below you and me, by DOH at their respective carriers, allowing them to keep their longevity for benefits.
5. Re-write scope to force Delta/NWA to only outsource additional jets to pilots onTHEseniority list.

What do you think? The most important part of that plan in my view is to get the permitted aircraft type operators on the property and on the list. Management's plan to outsource much of NWA's narrowbody flying (we have the same at Delta) should not come at the expense of the pilots any more. It is getting to the point where everything smaller than a 757 is a consideration for outsourcing - it would be good to start that trend the other direction.
Sounds great to me!
Deez340 is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 07:24 AM   #28  
Looking for a laugh
 
Justdoinmyjob's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar View Post
Yes this article was pretty whacked, although it likely is true. FWIW "thousands" means more than one, so lets say 2,000. Counting new hires that takes Delta back to October 1998 and staples them.

Not going to happen.
My thoughts exactly. That would mean an 88 captain would be stapled below a -9 FO. This is noise from people who are trying to influence the decision making process for their own ulterior motives. Until you hear something "official" from the union, it's just noise. Kinda sounds like the adults in "Charlie Brown's Christmas."
Justdoinmyjob is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 07:29 AM   #29  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 353
Default

Like I said in a different Post, NO MERGER IS A GOOD MERGER for the work groups. Somebody on the list will be unhappy. Just hope that you all get to keep your jobs and no Furloughs. Good Luck.
Clear Right is offline  
Old 02-20-2008, 07:31 AM   #30  
Line Holder
 
Invisible Man's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyBoy View Post
They have a frozen pension that I believe will give them about 50 FAE. Not quite sure about the specifics, but they do have a frozen pension. Any new guys just get the defined contribution stuff.
Let me start by saying I am not and expert on this, but here goes.

NWA pilots have a frozen pension, that part is correct. The rest is not. In BK the NWA plan was frozen. That means no more money goes in. And when you retire you will get what you had in there the day it was frozen. They then went to a DC plan for all pilots after BK.

Before BK it was 60 FAE. After BK it was lowered to 50 FAE. But now the hard part. With the new DC plan if you have >50 FAE already (expected $ from frozen pension). You get no $ from the new DC plan. Pilots with <50 FAE will get some $. And that varies with so many factors it is impossible to explain. But they tried to get as many pilots as close to 50 FAE as possible.

As for me, I will get $126./mo. in 20 years from my frozen pension. And as of now it looks like 37 FAE from my DC. (Not very good)

I'm not sure about this but it what I have been told. The Delta pilots pension was terminated. So they lost most of it. But they will get money from the PGC or whatever it is called. And they also got $650M note from Delta to make up some of the loss. What that works out to I don't know.

So the way I see it is the NWA and Delta pension issue is pretty much a wash.
IM
Invisible Man is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Delta "no merger yet" nicholasblonde Mergers and Acquisitions 0 02-19-2008 08:16 PM
Dal/nwa Corsair II Mergers and Acquisitions 2 02-19-2008 04:15 PM
Delta and Northwest close to merger deal Florida Flyer Mergers and Acquisitions 45 02-17-2008 12:57 PM
Could Delta, Northwest merge? 1900Driver Major 5 09-18-2005 10:00 AM
Delta selling ASA to Skywest... geshields Major 2 08-16-2005 03:00 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:39 PM.