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Old 02-20-2008, 12:26 PM   #41  
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Any one has given any thought to the fact that maybe all this "trouble" is just a nice negotiation move done by both pilot groups to get more out form management?. things like all flying on cr900/emb 190 or bigger done by mainline,no furlough clause, much bigget buyout for the old timers, a better joint contract with an ammnedable date of DOS +12 or merging of certificates whatever comes sooner...etc....

the pilots have finally a decent strong negotiation position, by playing the "we are not getting alone card" management might be willing to sweeten the pot to make sure they are on board and can sell thi merger to the financial backers and DC

that's what I would do ...
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:20 PM   #42  
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Yes this article was pretty whacked, although it likely is true. FWIW "thousands" means more than one, so lets say 2,000. Counting new hires that takes Delta back to October 1998 and staples them.

Not going to happen.
I don't think any NWA pilot would expect or accept this. Because we would not want it to happen the other way around. As for me, the day before a merger I expect to retire <340 on the NWA seniority list. A whale or 787 captain. The day after a merger I should still be able to expect close to that right?
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:31 PM   #43  
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I don't think any NWA pilot would expect or accept this. Because we would not want it to happen the other way around. As for me, the day before a merger I expect to retire <340 on the NWA seniority list. A whale or 787 captain. The day after a merger I should still be able to expect close to that right?
IM
I think a relative seniority for the guys before the furlows.....DOH for the newhires....seems fair to me. For the new hires, anyone hired in 07 or later should just go DOH.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:37 PM   #44  
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Any one has given any thought to the fact that maybe all this "trouble" is just a nice negotiation move done by both pilot groups to get more out form management?. things like all flying on cr900/emb 190 or bigger done by mainline,no furlough clause, much bigget buyout for the old timers, a better joint contract with an ammnedable date of DOS +12 or merging of certificates whatever comes sooner...etc....

the pilots have finally a decent strong negotiation position, by playing the "we are not getting alone card" management might be willing to sweeten the pot to make sure they are on board and can sell thi merger to the financial backers and DC

that's what I would do ...
I would agree that it would be nice if ALL CRJ900 and EMB 175 flying is done by Mainline at mainline pay. That would be more mainline jobs for all.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:01 PM   #45  
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I think a relative seniority for the guys before the furlows.....DOH for the newhires....seems fair to me. For the new hires, anyone hired in 07 or later should just go DOH.
are you a delta new hire?

that's good for the delta new hire and bad for the nwa new hire. I've got friends that would retire in the top 10 because they were in the 1st few classes at nwa. I don't think they would be anywhere near that if it was date of hire.

why not ratio the classes together. 1st with 1st and so on down so that the last classes are ratioed together. otherwise you could just put the nwa new hires ahead of the delta ones so that nwa's would get their career expections in relationship to retirements met.

both groups should just go to vegas and sit down at the roulette wheel. if it lands on black, delta wins and nwa is stapled, if it lands on red then nwa wins and delta is stapled. as a consolation prize the loser gets to keep their uniform. that way both airline could come away as winners and losers...
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:55 PM   #46  
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are you a delta new hire?

that's good for the delta new hire and bad for the nwa new hire. I've got friends that would retire in the top 10 because they were in the 1st few classes at nwa. I don't think they would be anywhere near that if it was date of hire.

why not ratio the classes together. 1st with 1st and so on down so that the last classes are ratioed together. otherwise you could just put the nwa new hires ahead of the delta ones so that nwa's would get their career expections in relationship to retirements met.

both groups should just go to vegas and sit down at the roulette wheel. if it lands on black, delta wins and nwa is stapled, if it lands on red then nwa wins and delta is stapled. as a consolation prize the loser gets to keep their uniform. that way both airline could come away as winners and losers...

NW has hired what like maybe a couple hundred new guys? We put almost 500 on property last year. Can you seriously suggest that a NW guy hired last month should be senior to a Delta guy hired in OCT 07, Aug 07? June 07?
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:42 PM   #47  
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are you a delta new hire?

that's good for the delta new hire and bad for the nwa new hire. I've got friends that would retire in the top 10 because they were in the 1st few classes at nwa. I don't think they would be anywhere near that if it was date of hire.
How is that bad for NWA new hires? If an NWA guy is hired say in Aug, 2007, all the Delta guys hired after him (hundreds) would be behind him.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:11 PM   #48  
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NW has hired what like maybe a couple hundred new guys? We put almost 500 on property last year. Can you seriously suggest that a NW guy hired last month should be senior to a Delta guy hired in OCT 07, Aug 07? June 07?
Ahhh,

Just looking on our message board it looks like our guys are asking for DOH and being vilified for it.

Just listening to you Delta guys, it looks like some of you want it and some of you don't.

I will say that I have seen how this place (NWA) has been operating with crazy merger integration systems and its not good. The second you allow someone to bid something that someone more senior to you wants they will be ****ed for life.

Is there a solution? I'm sure there is. But, I have a feeling it won't be reached because of egos, and a whole lot of "my airplane" "your airplane" "my seat" "your seat" stuff.

Personally, I KNOW I don't own any of these airplanes over here with red tails. (Ok, well maybe I do feel that I own a piece of the Compass and Mesaba airplanes because my paycut helped pay for them) And I don't really care if a Delta pilot who has been flying for Delta longer than I have been at NWA gets to bid the -400 before me. Sometimes I think our egos as pilots get in the way of far too many things. Good luck to us all.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:17 PM   #49  
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Ahhh,

Just looking on our message board it looks like our guys are asking for DOH and being vilified for it.

Just listening to you Delta guys, it looks like some of you want it and some of you don't.

I will say that I have seen how this place (NWA) has been operating with crazy merger integration systems and its not good. The second you allow someone to bid something that someone more senior to you wants they will be ****ed for life.

Is there a solution? I'm sure there is. But, I have a feeling it won't be reached because of egos, and a whole lot of "my airplane" "your airplane" "my seat" "your seat" stuff.

Personally, I KNOW I don't own any of these airplanes over here with red tails. (Ok, well maybe I do feel that I own a piece of the Compass and Mesaba airplanes because my paycut helped pay for them) And I don't really care if a Delta pilot who has been flying for Delta longer than I have been at NWA gets to bid the -400 before me. Sometimes I think our egos as pilots get in the way of far too many things. Good luck to us all.
How about a junior pilot from either company flying a plane you should be able to bid getting it before you?
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:29 PM   #50  
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How about a junior pilot from either company flying a plane you should be able to bid getting it before you?
IM

I guess DOH whould take care of that. That's my point. Whenever that happens, someone is ****ed forever.

Understand, I also think that there have to be some adjustments for DOH for some inequities that are present with that as well.
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