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Old 02-21-2008, 01:00 PM   #81  
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For this red-headed stepchild, the bottom line is that by creating the largest airline in the world, the pilots should be receiving the largest pay, benefits, etc. A merger of this scale is unprecedented. I'll bet the leaders at ALPA are working overtime to try to resolve the issue of seniority, but obviously you can't make everyone happy. I think this will take some time to hammer out, but for some reason the press is saying that if it's not done by the end of February then it's off. Let's see what rabbit ALPA can pull out of its hat.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:08 PM   #82  
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There is some truth to the Feburary date because the next presidential administration will have to review the merger if it is not set up for review by the end of this month. If that happens you are looking at atleast another year before that is taken care of.
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:48 PM   #83  
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There is some truth to the Feburary date because the next presidential administration will have to review the merger if it is not set up for review by the end of this month. If that happens you are looking at atleast another year before that is taken care of.
Good, lets hope we can hold it up so the Obama/Edwards administration can review it.
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:56 PM   #84  
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Folks on other boards have played with the concept of a scenario where everyone bid the most senior equipment they could hold - then doing a equipment ratio. That would answer your concern about folks who bid QOL.
This is the way they do a "relative seat position" integration. There is a list in the DALPA contract that shows the seniority of each airframe and seat position. The most senior guy would be the top 777 Captain, the next guy would be the number two and so on even if they had bid another aircraft for QOL. This "theoretical" list is what is used to determine seat position. Most of the newhires on the ER would fall into the 88 FO position on this list and that is where they would stand. The only time it benefits you to bid a bigger aircraft or upgrade is if there is a possibility that someone will buy only a portion of the airline and take only some airframes. That is what happned with Pan Am. Not happening here, so that shouldn't come into play.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #85  
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The only problem with that is newbs at NWA have FAR better seniority progression over the next 10 years than DAL newbs. Most of us chose NWA because of the seniority progression. This whole thing should go based on career expectations. If you were set to retire at #100 for retirement at DAL thats very close to where you should be in a combined list. I am set to retire probably in the top 20 at NWA if we stay on our own. I tell you what lets do DOH and put up 38 year fences
I can't believe all this talk about retiring at whatever number. I haven't a clue what my seniority would be at retirement, because I have no desire to fly until 60, let alone 65 now. I think I'd be a lot happier at 65 sitting on an island someplace drinking a margarita than in the cockpit of a 777 somewhere over the Atlantic in the middle of the night smug in the knowledge that there are only four guys senior to me at the company while simultaneously lamenting the fact that I had to fly to Frankfurt on Monday instead of Tuesday because that damn younger guy Jim was hired two weeks before me, 30 years ago.

For what it's worth, I'm a whole lot more concerned about pay and quality of life *now* so I can get the hell out of here long before I turn 60. Hopefully I can also make someone else happy by getting out of the way so he can retire at 23 instead of 24, and then keel over dead the next day...

Good grief...
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:43 PM   #86  
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Ah geeze thanks I for one just want to see a relatively fair deal for everyone. This definitely should not be one sided whomever that side is. Lets not try and get worked up about some bs newspaper article and wait for the MEC to release some real info.
I agree. We need to see what the deal is and hopefully nobody feels like they got screwed. For myself, as long as the paychecks are nice and I am near my home, I don't care where my number is when I retire. If you are near the top, its all just bragging rights anyway, not bad schedules. With more bases and routes to choose from, we all might be able to increase QOL and our paychecks at the same time. I don't mind being under somebody hired after me if the above mentioned is the end result.
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:46 PM   #87  
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I think I'd be a lot happier at 65 sitting on an island someplace drinking a margarita than in the cockpit of a 777 somewhere over the Atlantic in the middle of the night smug in the knowledge that there are only four guys senior to me at the company while simultaneously lamenting the fact that I had to fly to Frankfurt on Monday instead of Tuesday because that damn younger guy Jim was hired two weeks before me, 30 years ago.
That's one of the funniest things I've read in a while.
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:09 AM   #88  
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Long term this could be good for all of us.Short term will be interesting to say the least,our MEC's have a daunting task that will take compromise on both sides. The junior DL 777 Ca.(JFK) # 1676 hired Aug 88. The NW # same hire date
is 2113,don't know what he holds.Their percentage; DL=23%,NW=45%.Hold on to your hats or leather jackets,this is going to result in 12000 unhappy campers.
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:34 AM   #89  
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There is some truth to the Feburary date because the next presidential administration will have to review the merger if it is not set up for review by the end of this month. If that happens you are looking at atleast another year before that is taken care of.
Bush's administration doesn't end until Jan 20, 2009. Seems to me there is still plenty of time. But then again I'm just guessing. I do think that the merger will happen, with or without ALPA's help. There is a lot of money to be made by the Wall Street types, and they don't really care if the new airline is successful. It's a rare opportunity that airline boards even talk to employees before a merger, or even give them a chance to work up an agreement before hand. Hopefully ALPA can figure something out. Otherwise, I think the merger will happen, and an arbitrator will get to do a seniority list. Good Luck.
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:28 AM   #90  
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Let me get this right;NW pilots get pay raises to DL rates,access to new aircraft deliveries this year and DOH. DL pilots get leather jackets. I think that is DOA.
Ya gotta love those leather jackets...it sure worked for the AF when they had retention problems! I don't have one myself, I'm waiting to see if they are still authorized next winter.
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