Delta to stand alone?
02-29-2008, 07:56 PM
#161
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
What about giving the DAL guys credit for their retirements in 10 years, when the DAL retirements not only match, but EXCEED the NWA retirements. When making the "we have more retirements argument" the time frame of the argument is critical.
Each month a pilot's seniority number changes, so here's an idea. Merge the two lists together now by a ratio. If you are at NWA or Delta at 50%, you are at 50% at Delta. When a former NWA pilot retires, all NWA move up one. When a former Delta pilot retires, all Delta move up one number. Over next 5 years, the NWA guys would gain ground on a relative seniority basis. At some point between 5-10 years, the Delta guys gain ground and actually move ahead.
It's a simple plan that I could administer on a PDA spreadsheet. It protects seniority on both sides and isn't a windfall to either side. It's 100% fair from day one to year 30. Nobody moves initially and each group takes advantage of their pre merger retirement expectations. Put up a couple 2-5 year fences and everyone is happy. Now can we get on with this merger and start making some money.
Each month a pilot's seniority number changes, so here's an idea. Merge the two lists together now by a ratio. If you are at NWA or Delta at 50%, you are at 50% at Delta. When a former NWA pilot retires, all NWA move up one. When a former Delta pilot retires, all Delta move up one number. Over next 5 years, the NWA guys would gain ground on a relative seniority basis. At some point between 5-10 years, the Delta guys gain ground and actually move ahead.
It's a simple plan that I could administer on a PDA spreadsheet. It protects seniority on both sides and isn't a windfall to either side. It's 100% fair from day one to year 30. Nobody moves initially and each group takes advantage of their pre merger retirement expectations. Put up a couple 2-5 year fences and everyone is happy. Now can we get on with this merger and start making some money.
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 02-29-2008 at 08:02 PM.
02-29-2008, 08:20 PM
#162
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by Scoop
I have got a lot of good insight from the NW guys and appreciate their point of view they brought up a lot I didn't really consider but they seem unwilling to answer this question - Is your mainline fleet growing or shrinking in 2008?
Scoop
Scoop
The fleet is shrinking (slightly) but we will have more pilots. How can this be done you might ask?
1. While we are losing 24 DC-9's, we are keeping 10 320's that were supposed to be returned.
2. Increased utilization of A/C in service. Lots of new 330 routes to Europe this spring.
3. Charters. 747-200 out of MSP; 320 NBA.
4. Lower monthly flying for pilots. As you know, we were maxed out for much of last year. 1000's of flights were cancelled last summer as a result. Instead of working us to 89-92 hours no the company has seen the light and will bring us down to 83 or so.
Which is an interesting point. How many hours do you guys work?
Nevermind.
02-29-2008, 10:17 PM
#163
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Work
Posts: 506
Originally Posted by capncrunch
In the not too distant future, half of the NWA pilot group is going to retire. 2500 pilots out of 5000. That is huge and will be a turbo boost to top seats for the new NWA pilots.
03-01-2008, 03:55 AM
#164
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B747FO
Posts: 148
Looks like this this deal may blow over soon, here is the latest in the Star Tribune:
Delta Airlines will fly solo if Northwest merger deal fails
The carrier's CFO said that, in the event merger talks fall apart, Delta will be a stand-alone operator.
http://www.startribune.com/business/16123677.html
Looks like the boys in HQs are spinning this in the papers for a graceful exit. I for one will be amazed if Wall Street lets this fail. Lots of money to be made.
Delta Airlines will fly solo if Northwest merger deal fails
The carrier's CFO said that, in the event merger talks fall apart, Delta will be a stand-alone operator.
http://www.startribune.com/business/16123677.html
Looks like the boys in HQs are spinning this in the papers for a graceful exit. I for one will be amazed if Wall Street lets this fail. Lots of money to be made.
03-01-2008, 04:15 AM
#165
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Against
Posts: 275
Originally Posted by newKnow
Which is an interesting point. How many hours do you guys work?
Nevermind.
Nevermind.
Code:
Monthly Average Line Values March 2008 Eqpt. Captain F/O 777 73:45 73:00 765 73:00 82:00 7ER 74:00 74:45 767 76:45 76:00 73N 81:30 78:30 M88 82:00 81:30
03-01-2008, 04:22 AM
#166
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Against
Posts: 275
Originally Posted by nw320driver
It's WIN WIN! Delta stands alone...NWA stands alone. No consolidation in the industry and the pilot costs don't go up to adversely affect fares.
posted by dean1255 on Mar 1, 08 at 0:13 am
posted by dean1255 on Mar 1, 08 at 0:13 am
03-01-2008, 04:43 AM
#167
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B747FO
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by StripAlert
I particularly liked this comment, posted beneath the article:
These are the kind of customers we all have. I'd reckon it's been some time since "pilot costs" have been the driving factor in airfares. I figure it's somewhere around $2.50 per hour per passenger in the "pilot tip jar" on the ER these days... These folks would pay more for a 3-minute lap dance than they put in pilots' pockets for safe transport across the Atlantic and still want to complain about it.
These are the kind of customers we all have. I'd reckon it's been some time since "pilot costs" have been the driving factor in airfares. I figure it's somewhere around $2.50 per hour per passenger in the "pilot tip jar" on the ER these days... These folks would pay more for a 3-minute lap dance than they put in pilots' pockets for safe transport across the Atlantic and still want to complain about it.
How True. I do like you comment on the 3-minute lap dance. By the way has anyone ever meet a stripper who is not working her way though school?
Last edited by nw320driver; 03-01-2008 at 05:06 AM.
03-01-2008, 06:16 AM
#169
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: west coast wannabe
Posts: 815
Originally Posted by nw320driver
How True. I do like you comment on the 3-minute lap dance. By the way has anyone ever meet a stripper who is not working her way though school?
03-01-2008, 08:38 AM
#170
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,322
Originally Posted by dtfl
Are you assuming they will leave at 60? If so..that is a big assumption. You cannot negotiate a SLI based on a guess.
Maybe we come back to the table in ten years(once all the NWA retirements have gone through) and discuss relative seniority then. How bout this, we put up a ten year fence and after ten years, we discuss relative seniority and merging the lists. If relative seniority is such an honest deal then that logic will stand in ten years. I will tell you this, if we wait until the retirements go through and then merge the lists, I would be a lot better off in ten years than I would be today.
Sure, not every NWA pilot will retire at 60 but I believe the majority will and as a betting man I am putting my money down on 60 green.
Last edited by capncrunch; 03-01-2008 at 08:48 AM.
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