Delta to stand alone?
#171
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: AMR Big one
Posts: 177
I will put it this way, if the tables were turned and you had the older pilot group, you would be pushing for DOH. Each group is trying to protect their career and I respect that, we've all put in a ton of money and hard work to get here, it is worth fighting for. With that said, if we cannot work it out amicably then we should head our separate ways.
I bet NWA outta business in 5 years with out this merger...
#174
#176
I don't see where the comaraderie would be a big problem. Guys should be happy that they kept what they came in with and wouldn't feel like the guys from the other side got the better deal.
#177
The SLI plan is complete. Let's get this show on the road. Tomorrow's press release "NWA and DAL have sloved the SLI mystery on APC Merger's and Acquisition's Forum"
#178
What about giving the DAL guys credit for their retirements in 10 years, when the DAL retirements not only match, but EXCEED the NWA retirements. When making the "we have more retirements argument" the time frame of the argument is critical.
Each month a pilot's seniority number changes, so here's an idea. Merge the two lists together now by a ratio. If you are at NWA or Delta at 50%, you are at 50% at Delta. When a former NWA pilot retires, all NWA move up one. When a former Delta pilot retires, all Delta move up one number. Over next 5 years, the NWA guys would gain ground on a relative seniority basis. At some point between 5-10 years, the Delta guys gain ground and actually move ahead.
It's a simple plan that I could administer on a PDA spreadsheet. It protects seniority on both sides and isn't a windfall to either side. It's 100% fair from day one to year 30. Nobody moves initially and each group takes advantage of their pre merger retirement expectations. Put up a couple 2-5 year fences and everyone is happy. Now can we get on with this merger and start making some money.
Each month a pilot's seniority number changes, so here's an idea. Merge the two lists together now by a ratio. If you are at NWA or Delta at 50%, you are at 50% at Delta. When a former NWA pilot retires, all NWA move up one. When a former Delta pilot retires, all Delta move up one number. Over next 5 years, the NWA guys would gain ground on a relative seniority basis. At some point between 5-10 years, the Delta guys gain ground and actually move ahead.
It's a simple plan that I could administer on a PDA spreadsheet. It protects seniority on both sides and isn't a windfall to either side. It's 100% fair from day one to year 30. Nobody moves initially and each group takes advantage of their pre merger retirement expectations. Put up a couple 2-5 year fences and everyone is happy. Now can we get on with this merger and start making some money.
one flaw with your plan that I can see. if the nwa pilots moved up more quickly in the next 10 years could they not grab the captain slots that open up and prevent openings in the future when deltas retirements kick in...
#179
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,851
[quote=capncrunch; I will tell you this, if we wait until the retirements go through and then merge the lists, I would be a lot better off in ten years than I would be today.
Just as important is the question "If the deal does not go through altogether will you be better of in 10 years?" Apparantly some NW Pilots think the answer to this question is no, but from what I am hearing its too late - who knows? What the hell is ALPA Watch anyway?
Scoop
Northwest pilots hold out hope for Delta deal
By JIM THARPE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/28/08
A group of Northwest Airlines pilots was still holding out hope Thursday that a merger with Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines is possible.
The group, ALPA Watch, posted a statement on its Web site updating pilots on merger talks between Delta and Northwest to create the world's largest airline.
The talks are apparently on hold as leaders of the unions for the carriers' 11,000 pilots attempt to work out how their seniority lists would be combined under a single carrier.
"Seniority list integration remains the sticking point," according to a merger update posted on the Web site for the ALPA Watch, a group that says it monitors the Air Line Pilots Association unit for Northwest pilots. "However, it is still possible that this issue can be worked out, thus providing a good deal for all, NWA(Northwest) and DAL(Delta).
"That would be best because failure to do so will probably mean a great loss of economic opportunity for all. For now, stay informed, and as the messages from our leaders say, be patient."
The Associated Press, citing a person with knowledge of the situation, also reported Thursday that Northwest pilots continue to seek a solution to the stalled talks with Delta pilots, and that they're not under a line to make a deal.
The ALPA Watch Web site does not elaborate, and pilots connected with the site declined comment in a telephone interview.
ALPA Watch describes itself as "a grassroots organization created by everyday NWA line-pilots for the purpose of helping NWA ALPA restore the fair compensation, quality of life, the future, and the dignity of all NWA Pilots. ALPAWatch is here to make certain that the NWA ALPA leadership focuses on its primary responsibility, 'To protect and enhance the careers of Northwest Airlines Pilots.' "
The ALPA Watch posting comes as the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported Thursday that the pilots unions for the two airlines have not met since Feb. 21.
The two carriers have apparently agreed to major provisions of a merger, but want to get pilots on board before finalizing an agreement. The merger could proceed without a pilots' agreement, but labor problems have helped derail proposed airline mergers in the past.
Just as important is the question "If the deal does not go through altogether will you be better of in 10 years?" Apparantly some NW Pilots think the answer to this question is no, but from what I am hearing its too late - who knows? What the hell is ALPA Watch anyway?
Scoop
Northwest pilots hold out hope for Delta deal
By JIM THARPE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 02/28/08
A group of Northwest Airlines pilots was still holding out hope Thursday that a merger with Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines is possible.
The group, ALPA Watch, posted a statement on its Web site updating pilots on merger talks between Delta and Northwest to create the world's largest airline.
The talks are apparently on hold as leaders of the unions for the carriers' 11,000 pilots attempt to work out how their seniority lists would be combined under a single carrier.
"Seniority list integration remains the sticking point," according to a merger update posted on the Web site for the ALPA Watch, a group that says it monitors the Air Line Pilots Association unit for Northwest pilots. "However, it is still possible that this issue can be worked out, thus providing a good deal for all, NWA(Northwest) and DAL(Delta).
"That would be best because failure to do so will probably mean a great loss of economic opportunity for all. For now, stay informed, and as the messages from our leaders say, be patient."
The Associated Press, citing a person with knowledge of the situation, also reported Thursday that Northwest pilots continue to seek a solution to the stalled talks with Delta pilots, and that they're not under a line to make a deal.
The ALPA Watch Web site does not elaborate, and pilots connected with the site declined comment in a telephone interview.
ALPA Watch describes itself as "a grassroots organization created by everyday NWA line-pilots for the purpose of helping NWA ALPA restore the fair compensation, quality of life, the future, and the dignity of all NWA Pilots. ALPAWatch is here to make certain that the NWA ALPA leadership focuses on its primary responsibility, 'To protect and enhance the careers of Northwest Airlines Pilots.' "
The ALPA Watch posting comes as the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported Thursday that the pilots unions for the two airlines have not met since Feb. 21.
The two carriers have apparently agreed to major provisions of a merger, but want to get pilots on board before finalizing an agreement. The merger could proceed without a pilots' agreement, but labor problems have helped derail proposed airline mergers in the past.
#180
The funny thing is if we did have the big chunk of retirements like Delta, probably everyone would be comfortable with DOH....
Last edited by capncrunch; 03-01-2008 at 02:31 PM.
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