CVG767A

A few people I've talked to have mentioned that NWA has three distinct pilot subgroups: Old Northwest Orient, Republic, and new Northwest, aka Red Book, Green Book, and Blue Book.

Can any of you NWA guys give a synopsis of the size of each group, as well as the issues for each? I'm just looking for the facts, not a replay of the whole Republic merger. ( I get enough heartburn reading the USAir boards).

acl65pilot

Fact is that not all people on the bottom of the lists think that it is bad. It just depends on how they do this.
As they say the devil is in the details....

Most of the bottom 1000 will be there either way.

Gunfighter

I'd prefer to take my chances at the bottom of the DAL list with a stand alone plan for growing into other markets, than be at the bottom of the combined list. It's much risker being junior at the combined company.

sailingfun

Gunfighter, Have you seen the combined business plan? Rumor is that it requires a lot more hiring then the two companies would hire if they don't merge. To start they need 300 to 500 more pilots for the work rule transition to Delta. The merger annoucement is expected to come with a large wide body aircraft order for near term delivery. Wide bodies are the key to growth. Delta staffs narrow body domestic at 10 pilots per aircraft. 777's are staffed at 30 pilots per aircraft. NWA brings the ability to expand quickly in the orient. Most future Delta growth will be to Africa. We already fly to most European cities. Africa is limited by the political situations there. There is some concern that with the new aircraft coming available the Tokyo hub does not have the value it once had but I think the far east expansion would be much quicker and more with NWA then without. Personally I am against the merger because of where i sit on the list and the fact it can't do much if anything for me. If I were junior I would take a long look at what it might offer and the hazards of going it alone. Wait until the plan is annouced. Take a look at all aspects of the plan and then decide if you will support it or not.

slinky

This sounds suprisingly like what the LEC guys in the lounge in ATL were saying. The point I still don't understand is how DAL guys are ending up on the bottom couple thousand of the list.

I agree with gunfighter, rather not be furlow fodder for the NW guys, I will take my chances anyday on the bottom of the DAL list instead of the bottom of the combined list with a large amount of -9's and bases to close.

Bucking Bar

I can explain 600 being on the bottom, we apprentice members don't vote. I'm green and yellow slipping to earn my vote.

Are our own Reps saying several thousand Delta pilots will be on the bottom?

Unless they try some trick like combining the MEC's and taking a combined vote, I see no way that this is going to pass on the Delta property.

The psychology of groups... most individuals will vote against things that are unfairly distributed, even if they are the beneficiaries.

ExAF

Unless you are talking airline pilots as a group. Pilot group think....senior guys get everything (I've paid my dues)...junior guys get what's left over (still paying their dues)....new hires don't matter and don't get a vote (they haven't paid any dues yet). Nobody likes to admit it, but that's the way it is. Sad, but true.

Eric Stratton

what is it about your work rules that would require 300-500 more pilots?

slinky

The mec guys were explaining this the other day. This has to do with required staffing levels. You guys end up flying 85+ hour months or something, not flamebait just an example...., we have an Average Line Value for the line holders that the company builds bids around. There is a %+/- that your bid award can be awarded.

From what they said, since our staffing requirement is higher, partly to avoid have happening what happened to you guys last summer if I understand it correctly, NW will need to hire XXX more pilots based soley on the staffing requirement. The reps said that this number would suck up any loss in flying positions due to unforseen aircraft loss.

Basically, their selling point is that Delta is undermanned by something like 500 guys do to new aircraft and open positions, NW will need to hire about the same do to staffing changes. The combined company will be a bout 800-1000 guys short.

Personally, I don't know if I believe much of this.

CVG767A

I'd like to find out, too. Don't we have similar duty rigs? I can't imagine that we have a greater percentage of guys on reserve. 300-500 is a lot of bodies, and I can't imagine their operation being that much leaner.

One big improvement might be long (12+ hr) haul flying, where we man the flight with two captains and two F/Os. I've heard other airlines fly with one captain and three F/Os. True?