JiffyLube

And a better mngt team... I think NWA "screwed the pooch." Arbitration will not be any better than what DAL offered. DAL MEC seemed to better think thru this issue, just look at the 2 MEC letters to its members. NWA 2 page response to the DAL MEC 5 page explanation to its membership.

nw320driver

Hold on Boys, I don't get why all you guys are getting spooled up by this, it's just more spin, just like the stuff from the EMTs, Hedge funds, Newspapers and now the MECs. Another form of pressure to get the deal done.

At the same time these questions were being considered, we started hearing that the other management would seek to renegotiate the economic package and no furlough provisions previously agreed to due to the changing economic picture.

They already are looking to change the deal.....

We all determine fairness through our own prism, so we see little value in disputing who started or ended closer to a compromise position, or who had a more reasonable position on any issue. Both groups worked very hard and did their best to represent their respective pilot groups and find compromise. The fundamental issue was the ratio or ratios to be used to combine the lists.

It sounds like both sides did what each pilot group wanted to them to do (protect their pilots), they did go with ratios and not DOH.

I predict this is not over, there is to much to be gained. (I'm not hearing the Fat Lady)

nw320driver

Post it, so the NWA pilots can read DAL MECs point of view.

Deez340

Exactly! After reading the NWA committee's characterization of things I can see what our team was up against. I still hope we can reach a deal or one will be thrust upon us and we'll spend 3 years trying to get a contract that won't be as good as what's on the table all while under an arbitrator's list. The financial community will say and is already saying "see, you can't let those stupid, juvenile, pre-Madonna pilots have a seat at the table they're like children" Sadly some in our ranks are proving them right.

Deez340

It's already been posted more than once. It takes up two posts and is on a couple of different threads. Look around.

newKnow

Jiffy, I'm still waiting for an answer from you from earlier in this thread. Seems you can do a lot of unsubstantiated talk, but not a lot of fact based answering.

How do you know what the arbitrator would decide?

Also, what does the length of the letters to the respective pilot groups have to do with anything?

One thing you may learn in life is that sometimes the more words someone uses, the more they have to hide.

Did you pick out of the NWA MEC's few words what their offer/position was? I did. (And was not especially happy with it. It's too, convoluted)

Did you pick out of the DAL MEC's many words what their last position was for integration of the seniority list? I did not. No specifics. Just a lot of posturing. If you find what their offer was, please let me know. Otherwise, just keep talking to the general masses as a whole on what your opinion is (which effects and informs no one)


(For everyone else)
Anyway, I think the NWA MEC position is that premium widebody flying is what the -400's do (12+ hours at a time) I can tell you that that is just the culture here. International Asia flying is viewed to be king. The -400 guys probably look at our 330 Europe flying as a warm up for them. Remember they sleep for the first 6 or last 6 hours of their flights.

Please don't shoot me because I'm just the messenger and a DC-9 guy.


New K Now

nw320driver

I agree your mngt team is better, but that's not saying much. Doug and his boys are on the way out.

Arbitration, why is you MEC against it.

nw320driver

Ok, Thanks

Deez340

Is that a rhetorical question?!? Why not work together to determine our future instead of giving that power to some bureaucrat!?!?!?!? Let's make the deal. Given the new law and ALPA's merger policy I would have to assume that NWA guys would not fair well in arbitration. Let's make this deal ourselves this is embarrassing. Come up with an innovative way to best protect career expectations (Which I believe the DAL MEC chair when he says they did) and make it happen. Nobody is supposed to "win" just not lose. That "my options count but yours don't and while we have less widebody flying we have more premium widebody flying" logic is juvenile and not productive. I thought some of the things I was hearing about the NWA negotiating committee would just have to be false or exaggerated, but after reading this horse-squeeze of a letter I'd say the comments were accurate. What kind of looser says well it's a good deal, we may need it to survive, but I have more "premium" widebody flying so lets just quit and let a bureaucrat decide our futures. Paltry leadership at best!

nw320driver

Deez340 relax, getting spooled up is not going to make any of this happen any faster. Like I said it before, it's just spin.... All part of the negotiations. I have flown with Red (NO) and Green (Rep) Books guys who still get upset when your bring up mergers and it's been 20 years. It's just something you have to deal with. Both sides will meet and find middle ground or they won't. It's part of the business. Like the old guys told me during the strike in 98, "your not a real airline pilot til you been though one". Lets just hope this works out for the best of all involved.