AV8ER13

No I haven't, You ever heard Karma is a B*tch! You STILL did not answer why YOU feel you are entitled to equity more so than I? You HAD NOTHING TO DO with the Neg (unless you are on the Neg Comm), therefore YOU are not entitled to more than anyone else. JMHO

Why do you want me to beg my reps, you dont want to go to arib?

slowplay

Entitled? There's no entitlement here. The Delta pilots negotiated equity in exchange for cooperation on contractual modifications that would allow management to build value in the merged carrier.

Entitlement is thinking you are owed something when you didn't add value to a business process.

The negotiations for a joint contract between NWA/DAL is where both pilot groups will be able to extract the combined value that they bring to the merged airline.

atpcliff

Hi!

I CAN predict when oil prices will come way down. It is simply supply/demand and geology.

When oil is not used as a primary transportation fuel, the price will drop down to probably $30-$40/barrel. When? It will probably take us to about 2020 AT LEAST to stop using oil as a primary transportation fuel.

In the meantime, the max price of oil depends on how fast we are converting to renewable energy sources.

Currently, especially here in the US, we are doing basically nothing, which isn't good. If we got our country's leaders and gov't on board, we could have drastic changes in possibly as little as 5 years.

If we do nothing here in the US, until we're forced to, oil will go to at least $250/barrel. If we work our butts off to convert to renewable energy, oil may top out at $150-$180/barrel.

cliff
GRB

DAL4EVER

Looking forward to a combined contract and flying the 767. Always wanted to fly that plane! I need to get out of MSP..too cold. What year group at DAL can hold ATL 767 CA?

I welcome your company on the flight deck and asking you to raise the gear[/QUOTE]

'92 hires I believe are the most junior. Certainly '91 hires. 767 is a great plane. Domestically the only cold places it goes are NYC, PDX, SEA and SLC. Everything is warm. We have pilots that bid to never have to wear their jackets.

tsquare

First of all, I never said I was ENTITLED to anything. What I said was that my reps NEGOTIATED what the DAL pilots will receive. YOUR reps, seemingly (and I am sure all this will come out someday) rolled the dice for DOH, and wouldn't see what is in front of not only us, but the entire industry. Why do YOU think three airlines went TU last week? Have anything to do with the credit market? Why couldn't any of them get refinancing? Oh, I don't know... maybe because there is no money to be had... Same reason that we cannot get reinstated to C2K rates at DAL. Are we worth it? Absolutely... But I digress.. To answer your question as to why I don't want to go to arbitration: Because as many guys have said here before, arbitration usually happens after the fact of the wedding. Therefore, at that time there is nothing to be gained from the company for our mutual cooperation; a third party arbiter isn't going to tell the company to give us equity or stock options or pay raises or contract improvements... only the integration of the seniority list. So... Now, we got something from the company, and you didn't (yet). Believe me, I want you to get the equity too, but there's a price... negotiations... not entitlement. And lastly, your reps are going to get their wish of arbitration... I hope it was worth it.

sailingfun

Its very simple. NWA's committee said they were willing to discuss their proposal further but would not discuss or entertain DALPA's proposal. A that point DALPA said there was no point in going further. What has changed is that the company told us they were merging with us or without us. ALPA has a process for merging lists. We will now go through that process. Most likely it will end up in arbitration.

E1Out

Maybe someone can clear something up for me...

It is my understanding, that because the DAL pilots had it written into their own individual contract, that they were to be negotiated with prior to any merger announcement - that DALPA was well within their contractual rights and obligations, when they negotiated with their own company regarding a merger. And had the NWA pilots written the same stipulation into their contract, at this time, they would have their own contract with either NWA or DAL as well.

It is also my understanding that IF this merger goes through, it more than likely won't happen for another 6-8 months. And until the companies are officially merged, no one will be getting any of these tentatively agreed upon benefits. So, we are still separate companies, and separate pilot groups, under separate seniority lists, all working under our individual previously negotiated contracts.

Furthermore, I also understand that there is no stipulation stating that under no circumstances, will the NWA pilots be brought under the new TA, or written a new contract of their own, or brought in to negotiate a new joint contract with the DAL pilots anytime in the next 6-8 months BEFORE any of this even takes affect.

Are all of these correct statements?

If so, my first question is, why are NWA pilots and NWALPA outraged at this?

My second question is, why are NWA pilots and NWALPA already accusing DALPA of "pay disparities" and "B-Scale" and "whipsawing" ?

Nothing has changed. We are still separate companies, on separate seniority lists, under our separate previously agreed upon contracts.

We tried to come together and agree upon one common seniority list, so we could negotiate with DAL management as one pilot group, under the portion of the DAL contract that stipulated that they must negotiate with us before moving ahead with a merger. DALPA fought to preserve their constituents' seniority, just as hard as NWALPA fought to preserve theirs, and they couldn't come to an agreement. If NWALPA felt that agreeing to the seniority integration that DALPA was willing to agree to, was going to be more detrimental than going into this merger without an agreement with DAL management, then so be it.

Bigflya

If you know anything about business you will realize that it takes time to integrate two large organizations and corporate cultures. Oil will cause all of us to lose $$ this year and into the forseeable future if it does not change. If after four years we are making $$ then we will point to that in the next contract. Until then lets give the company a break and try to make some $$.

TNT AV8R

Well put. I'm really glad DALPA made a move to get the Delta pilots a little piece of the pie before things really got out of hand. The company would have just laughed and said; "you had your chance."

DAL4EVER

AV8ER,

Read this carefully and then read again after my succinct response: ditto.

You have time to tell your MEC what you want. None of this goes into effect until post merger.