Jay5150

I hear what you're saying. FWIW, that's the same way that we heard about it.

newKnow

Thanks Jay. It's all in the past now. What's next?

slowplay

If that's your beef, then you don't have one.

After negotiations broke down (for the third time) in Washington on March 10, there were several contacts between the respective parties. There was a "last ditch" attempt at an SLI and joint CBA that concluded 2 days before the merger announcement. During that time the NWA MEC was aware of the Delta MEC's position and the fact that the Delta MEC was negotiating modifications to the Delta PWA to allow a merger to proceed.

You might ask your MEC Chairman about his letter to the Delta MEC in late March, where he stated that there was no basis for continued SLI discussions on the Delta proposal, but they were interested in continuing discussions only on the NWA proposal.

The last NWA proposal from Washington was exceptionally convoluted. It used "aircraft shells" rather than block hours/manning formula to determine the number of jobs each party brought. That methodology benefited NWA, artificially increasing the required manning. NWA tried to capture the increased staffing that would be required under the Delta PWA staffing formula, applying jobs that didn't exist absent the merger. Then, they discounted DAL growth, while using a slotted dynamic list concept to protect their attrition for NWA pilots only.

It resulted in a slotting ratio at Single Operating Certificate worse than relative position for Delta pilots. It provided 777 growth seats at Delta to greenbook pilots unable to access redtail widebodies due to seniority list inversion. It prevented Delta pilots from entering redtail widebodies through 24.E.10.

It didn't work. And according to your MEC Chair, it was the only methodology that NWA was interested in discussing.

Now the deal is different. Oil has gone up over 25%. Air France/KLM didn't invest in the deal. The projections going forward are worse. Delta is still growing, NWA is still shrinking. Two weeks after the "final" deadline given by the management team to either get a deal or be left out, just 2 days prior to the merger announcement, NWA MEC made some minor movement in their last position. It wasn't enough. Too little, too late.

So we go the traditional route.

It's unfortunate for us all. Both parties today are going to live with less than they could have had otherwise. The NWA MEC has chosen to fight the merger. I hope they have a plan for when they're not successful in that fight to work with the Delta MEC to build value for both pilot groups. Because then they will be one pilot group.

Justdoinmyjob

But you were willing to post that "someone" told you that there were only 100 pilots over the age of 50 and you took that for gospel? Enough to make a post on how you believed that number affected you? And when presented with the facts, which show how wrong you were, you not only don't admit to any mistake, you want to then call the facts into doubt. If it will make you believe the numbers, where do you live? Maybe I'll come meet you and show you an actual seniority list. Would that satisfy you? Or do you only believe the veracity of what comes from the NW MEC? Maybe you're a plant for the MEC, here to sow discontent and mistrust?

Carl Spackler

tsqare,

Wow. If you don't already know what Northwest Airlines brings to the party then there's little point in trying to tell you.

To the other Delta pilots: What about my escrow proposal?? Any thoughts? Anyone? Anyone? Echo....echo....

Carl

Carl Spackler

Just,

Geez, you're just like that other guy. You quote my post but you don't even read it. I said: "It might be right, it might be wrong...I don't know." I would never have imagined this so hard to comprehend.

Carl

Justdoinmyjob

I comprehend quite well. I also see where you are trying to deflect. How about when presented with the facts just say, "Thanks for the info." Why try and discredit the truth?

CVG767A

Carl, I had to go back and find your escrow proposal.

It seems to me that we traded a portion of our scope clause for some improvements to other areas of our contract. We get to take advantage of our improved contract at about the same time Delta management gets to take advantage of the scope relief they got.

The prospect of a pay raise is hardly "having a gun to your head" during the upcoming negotiations. Isn't a pay raise a feature of virtually every contract negotiation you've seen?

Carl Spackler

How can I discredit what I don't know? Internet posts aren't facts, thus there is nothing to discredit. That said, Freight Dog just posted some graphs on another thread from a guy at UPS. If this is right, it looks like there might be very little age demographic difference after all.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Then your answer is no. The money is for Delta pilots only. OK. So much for only being concerned about raising the bar for everyone.

Here's the gun to your head: It's not just the "prospect" of a pay raise, it's the prospect of a pay raise if NWA guys agree to the DAL proposed SLI.

Carl