Tinpusher007

I've been reading these threads almost daily. And the same argument seems to keep coming up that the NWA pilots were (intentionally) left out of the DALPA LOA. My question is was/is there any provision for the DAL MEC to negotiate that LOA on behalf of NWALPA as well, and therefore, not leave them out?

Carl Spackler

E1,

The problem with your post is that you cite Lee Moak as a source for unquestioned truth, while at the same time accusing the NWA MEC of "complete misinformation." How does any of us know what is misinformation if none of us has been told the whole truth yet? I know it's important for you to make NWA folks aware of just how incompetent our MEC is...for our own good of course. But until we all have verifiable facts in front of us, nobody can make an accurate judgement yet about honesty, misinformation or anything else.

Also, I don't really consider my posts an "impassioned defense" of my MEC, and your description as such is dismissive of the actual POINTS I've made about actual ISSUES. Did you not think I would notice? I've actually tried to stay factual and unemotional. Just goes to show you how differently people can interpret something as detached as an internet post.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Yikes....yet another Delta professional describing an attempt to discern facts as an emotionally driven spasm of some sort. Do you feel no need whatsoever to actually comprehend the points discussed?

Carl

Carl Spackler

Well, considering the fact that our wide bodies couldn't be parked until after the merger closed (which is the activation point of your LOA), the more salient question would be: Why would the new Delta commit suicide on the day the merger closed? Or do you think the new Delta would be more profitable by grounding formerly NWA wide bodies? After all, how much revenue is out there in the Pacific anyway??

Carl

Justdoinmyjob

I fully understand that the "new" Delta wouldn't actually park the airplanes. It was simply a theoretical question, how would the NW pilots react? What I do find interesting is the fact that you seem to answer questions with questions rather than answers.

Carl Spackler

Just,

Actually, I don't think you do fully understand. Without the scope relief granted by your LOA, Delta would be legally obligated to park the aircraft. Your previous scope language did not allow the aircraft to be flown. This would have been suicidal for the new Delta Airlines. So the scope relief that directly affects the operation of jets from another airline was offered up. The only thing asked in return was raises for the pilot group to whom the scope relief did NOT directly affect. Thus the hard feelings at good ole NWA.

Carl

E1Out

It was a sincere complement, Carl. I'm sorry you took it any other way.

Justdoinmyjob

OK, so since you want a piece of what Delta gave me to amend my contract with them, what are you willing to give me from your contract? This is a rather simplistic approach, but it does convey the essence of the argument. It's about quid pro quo. Delta needed something from me. They were willing to pay for it. I traded scope concessions. You want some of that pay. What are you willing to do or trade for it? Or do you want to demand that some of it belongs to you without any shared changes on your part?

Carl Spackler

Excellent question. I would be willing to relax our scope to allow DAL wide bodies to continue flying their international routes and capture revenue. This may actually be required if the Japanese refuse to grant 5th freedom rights transfer to Delta. In that case our merger agreement would have to be amended to make NWA the acquiring carrier. It would take that arguement away from the Japanese. And in return, I would want a pay raise. And if I were the MEC chairman, I would demand any actual funds received be put into escrow for distribution to ALL pilots when all hurdles are cleared.

Carl

Eric Stratton

somehow this morfed (sp) into something other than what was originally being discussed and that is where the confusion lies.

delta isn't furloughing from parking airplanes due to deliveries
nwa isn't furloughing from parking airlplanes due to under utilized planes

you and justdoinmyjob were saying that if delta parks planes prior to the SLI delta pilots should be furloughed and if nwa parks airplanes nwa pilots get furloughed. I agree.

the problem now lies after the merger date when delta management controls both groups. what's to stop delta management from not parking a delta plane (if those would have been the ones parked if the airline were run completely independant) and parking nwa planes instead. all they have to do is park an nwa plane instead of a delta one and transfer flying to that side. it honors the no furlough clause in your contract and possibly puts the nwa guy on the street when in reality it should have been a loss on the delta side. it's whipsawing.


no delta pilot did me or my family wrong. I find it interesting watching this play out and that you think I'm blindly devoted to the nwa pilots. I'm not. I've just never seen a pilot group come across as being so right all the time while the other side is so wrong or that delta has only good things going for it while nwa doesn't have anything. there are delta guys who don't see anything other than relative seniority, for instance, and can't fathom that nwa pilots might not see it that way. with having thinking that rigid, they can't even see that the delta mec might carry some of the blame for not getting the SLI done. I hope this makes sense.