Airline Pilot Central Forums - DAL/NW Labor issues Q & A

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 364983)

Completely untrue. For years CAL was a sideshow joke that had scabs running its Union and arguably had the very worst contract in the industry. I've said it before and I'll say it again your current contract, except for wages, is light years ahead of ours.

What I'm amazed at is how little you sold yourself out for and how you did it without the input of the NWA Pilots. Nothing more or nothing less.

I'm hopeful that we, (CAL and UAL), will work together and surpass your 4 year deal and set the bar even higher.

Delta has always been a great place to work and back in 1987 I would have sold my eyeteeth to get on there. My biggest gripe is that I don't think you should have settled for anything less than the original agreement.

Fare increases, over the last year, have countered most of the increase in fuel and if you'd just demand it, your management team would pass on the several bucks it would cost to secure an industry leading agreement.

If, however, in several months the new Delta signs an even more comprehensive and leading contract, I'll get on here and apologize to each and every one of you.

I don't see that happening and quite frankly, I think you're stuck with this crappy T/A for the next four years.

Driver,

I still don't think you get it. In a perfect world this side letter will not go into effect. On the other side, the worst case is no agreement between the two pilot groups for four plus years. I think an agrement will happen sooner than later. This side letter is an interim agreement that will be cancelled when a SINGLE pilot contract is achieved. This could happen before the Single Operating Certificate is granted by the FAA.

The status quo has been raised by SL 19. It is hard to say what exactly went on during these negotiations but I don't think it will rise to a sell-out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 364972)

Yes I did. So its an LOA, will they suddenly change their mind and change the terms of it before the 4 years is up?

Yes! That's the point. There has to be a contract to merge, and if it happens it's certainly going to be a lot quicker than 4 years...

Quote:

Don't think so and yes I love to pontificate. :D

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion. It detracts from your argument if you frame it with incorrect information; we're all more likely to sit up and take notice if we're not distracted by factual inaccuracies...

;)

Kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 364983)

Like Poltergeist, I'm back. There will be a limit to how much the public can absorb fare increases. I predict every airline, including your beloved CAL will start showing losses possibly this quarter. We are in a recession, the global markets are all going down, this is a dire time. Fares could increase, but if no one buys those fares then it doesn't mean anything. The cash reserves will start being eaten and the carriers with the strongest cash reserves will ride out the storm the longest. That's the reason for these mergers. Combined carriers with cash reserves of $7b can go much longer than those with cash reserves of $3b. Also, you have greater access to the credit markets with those reserves.

I'm for $400/hour but why couldn't UPS and FedEx achieve anything close to $300/hour or even $250 in their last contracts? They were making profits in excess of $1b each annually. I admire your passion and resolve, but that doesn't mean you must ignore reality. And no I'm not selling myself short.

In the immortal analogy of a marine friend of mine:

If the object is to get s*x, its better to go home with the fat girl than no girl at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwa757dtw (Post 364689)

the nwa mec is going to oppose the proposed merger by all legal means possible. as a 12 year line pilot, i support their decision, up to an including a strike. nwa has the most cash in the industry. the bottom line is dal is running out of cash....

Ask yourself a question – How did we get here? Why did the DAL MEC have the additional contractual clout to be able to influence management? And more importantly, Why did the NW MEC not have the same contractual clout? I don’t think the DAL MEC individuals are any smarter, so what enabled them to get more out of management? I will give you my opinion for what its worth – admittedly, probably not much. I think it is because the DAL MEC was united and focused.
While the NW MEC was splintered with individual constituencies watching their peers as much as management the ball was dropped. DAL with a unified group had one thing in mind – get the best contract for all the DAL pilots as possible. While NW had different groups of pilots with different priorities all looking out for their individual interests.
So we can learn from this and unite – or we can repeat the mistakes of the past with a divided group. Go ahead and burn your house down – lets get it over with before we merge or lets unite so that our combined MEC can look out for all of us. If you only have a few years left go for it – raise hell and screw over all the NW pilots who have a long and possibly worthwhile career ahead of them – as long as they don’t repeat the mistakes of the last NW merger which seems to be what you are advocating.

Scoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWA320pilot (Post 364882)

Well as a 13 year NWA 320 FO here is my take on what has transpired. DAL needed contractual changes from their pilots. The DALPA negoitiated a LOA that improves the working conditions for its pilots. It also was able to extract a stake in the company, the way I see it is good for them! NWA didn't have the language that DAL had and so they were the ones who had a dog in that hunt. I personally think that if the shoes had been reversed NWA APLA would have done the same thing (or I would like to hope). I do not feel like DALPA went behind the NWA guys backs as they were the ones with a contract that needed changed in order to continue. I also feel that anything the DALPA got will eventually flow for the NWA pilots. So I see this as a plus not a negative. I would have loved for both sides to have come together and closed the differences 6 weeks ago but at least there was some gain on the working conditions we will all be under shortly.

Now that the merger is announced it is time for the DALPA and NWA ALPA to get back together and come to an agreement that benefits the entire pilot group as a whole. There are always going to be guys who feel screwed but hopefully the final product will benefit us all. Arbitration is never a good thing so hopefully it will not go down that path.

Someone who gets it... Beers are on me my brother...

[quote=DAL4EVER;364632]

Now, AV8ER will still find a way to think he's screwed.

quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL4EVER (Post 364632)

Now, AV8ER will still find a way to think he's screwed.

Making a comment like this is very unprof., the disrespect was noted and unappreciated! When have I ever said I was getting screwed? Have I made statements that I didnt want to see the DAL pilots screw the NWA pilots, YES! Would you want the same if the tables were turned. Its funny, I am glad you have no leadership role in the DALPA, b.c. in this letter your MEC did a pretty good job of communicating that they were going to try and take care of the NWA pilots, that we were now one. Boy I wish you were over here, so then you would get the luxury of feeling what its like to worry about whats going to happen...You sit over there and think Your so High and mighty all b.c. your company happens to be the company name we are going to take. If it was NWA taking the name, then things might be different. You took a lot of steps backwards today trying to make ME feel like I was apart of ONE...

TRUE and Factual Communication has been so rare, Thanks again to who ever posted the MEC's letter.

Again, my concern is that NWA pilots will not get the equity as well!

Hopefully after we get this worked out we can get an additional bump out of mgmt to seal the deal. Any chance of that happening? I dont know about you guys but i am already ready for this to be over with. Lets getter done ;)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ums/beer-1.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwa757dtw (Post 364689)

the nwa mec is going to oppose the proposed merger by all legal means possible. as a 12 year line pilot, i support their decision, up to an including a strike. nwa has the most cash in the industry. the bottom line is dal is running out of cash....

Just a question. How did that strike thingy work out for the mechanics in 2005? I was in Minnie when it started and there was incredible hubris at the beginning. Six weeks later when I left Minnie, it was sad to see the guys on the p. line just barely hanging on and how few there were. Sure a different ballgame, but....

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwa757dtw (Post 364689)

The real bottom line is that the NWA MEC can't block this and we better hope that DAL does not run out of cash because WE are about to work for DAL! Let's get over it and on with it!