Why DAL's proposed ratio is inequitable
04-16-2008, 08:14 AM
#51
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by Pitts S2B
Mako, GREAT post!!
So, how do we get our MEC to tell us what the proposal was?
All the MEC is saying is "we vehemently disagree with the current proposal" or some such thing.... (DUH!)
So, how do we get our MEC to tell us what the proposal was?
All the MEC is saying is "we vehemently disagree with the current proposal" or some such thing.... (DUH!)
Why can't NWA pilots who have questions about that contact a Delta rep? Is that some sort of taboo?
04-16-2008, 08:17 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by maddogmax
Just for info, I was hired at NWA in early 1985 and am in the low 900's. I was 35 and will be leaving in 18mos. (age 60) so I only have a toy poodle in this fight.
Godd luck to all
Godd luck to all
Can I ask you a question? I have theorized that NWA guys who are currently planning on leaving at 60 might have second thoughts, especially if we had come to a complete agreement back in Feb.
My understanding is that to continue past 60 under your current contract is pointless because you would nearly be flying for free given your pension, etc. However, had we come to an agreement back in Feb, you would have been looking at $40-70/hr pay raises, a good-sized equity chunk, and annual contributions to a DC plan equal to 14% of your (much-improved) salary. If you were to extend that out to age 65 it could be quite lucrative. However, I don't know if it would have been compelling enough for you to stay on the property.
Would it have been?
And yes, I agree, "good luck to all"--and to you in your retirement.
04-16-2008, 08:57 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: NWA 747-200 SO
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by Check Essential
I think sometimes people place way too much emphasis on what raw number they will be. It sounds really bad to some to be told that instead of retiring as #30 on the list you will now be topping out at #80.
What a screw job!
The fact is though, that what really matters in this profession hasn't changed in decades. Its money and quality of life. If those things improve for me as a result of a merger then I don't really care if I'm #1 or #10,000.
We each need to make an honest assessment of those factors before deciding if a proposed list is fair.
If the guy at #80 on the combined list is making lots more money and holding the same or better trips and days off than he would have at his original stand-alone carrier #30 position - Then it would be the height of folly to oppose a list based on his perceived "loss of seniority".
What a screw job!
The fact is though, that what really matters in this profession hasn't changed in decades. Its money and quality of life. If those things improve for me as a result of a merger then I don't really care if I'm #1 or #10,000.
We each need to make an honest assessment of those factors before deciding if a proposed list is fair.
If the guy at #80 on the combined list is making lots more money and holding the same or better trips and days off than he would have at his original stand-alone carrier #30 position - Then it would be the height of folly to oppose a list based on his perceived "loss of seniority".
04-16-2008, 08:59 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
For me personnaly, I have planned my whole life/investments/career knowing that I would leave at 60. That has not changed for me. I am fortunate to still (for now) have a good pension and 401K. Some of us also have an "excess" amount in our pension that we can take in a lump sum at age 60. In my case it is well over $100,000. This amount is reduced significantly as we work past 60. I don't have a big house,alimony,boat or plane. I can live out my life very comfortably with what I have. I am only speaking for myself.
That said, if for some reason our pension goes away I would have to rethink my situation.
Thanks for your comments!
That said, if for some reason our pension goes away I would have to rethink my situation.
Thanks for your comments!
04-16-2008, 09:02 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: NWA 747-200 SO
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by flyguy1012
Is it impossible for the NWA pilot group to be informed of both MEC's proposed SLI? I know that's not the norm, but it seems to me the old way hasn't worked very well. DALPA seems so sure that their SLI is a better option than any other proposed and not a winfall for any group more than the other. It seems that the NWA pilots are not getting all the info they should have. I don't beleive for one minute that age should have any bearance in the SLI. Why should anywone suffer because the other only has so many years left to fly? Heck you just got 5 more years.
04-16-2008, 09:06 AM
#56
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by AV8ER13
But what if the NWA guy is flying the 320 and lets just say a bunch of DAL guys come in on the 320 and bump him down, now he no longer holds the same Bidding Sen. So in this situation he does care, so money is not the only deciding factor. Doesnt matter what is Rel Sen within in the company is, it matters on the A/C, so just b.c. his Rel Sen is the same, his QOL on the 320 now dec.
If everyone would be .5% within their seniority at the combined company, I don't think that will happen.
04-16-2008, 10:02 AM
#59
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by AV8ER13
But what if the NWA guy is flying the 320 and lets just say a bunch of DAL guys come in on the 320 and bump him down, now he no longer holds the same Bidding Sen. So in this situation he does care, so money is not the only deciding factor. Doesnt matter what is Rel Sen within in the company is, it matters on the A/C, so just b.c. his Rel Sen is the same, his QOL on the 320 now dec.
I've never been part of a merger before so I may be way off...
04-16-2008, 10:27 AM
#60
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by flyguy1012
Why can't NWA pilots who have questions about that contact a Delta rep? Is that some sort of taboo?
One guy calling one rep might not be a big deal, but for one MEC to publicly "go around" the other and openly try to influence the other pilot group - that would cause the earth to stop rotating.
However, some of us here at Delta are advocating exactly that.
Both MECs have some explaining to do. The rank and file needs to know what happened with the seniority list negotiations.
Somebody in that room cost us all a lot of money. I want to know who it was and why they did it.
If the Delta negotiators were intransigent and unreasonable, then I want to know about it so I can recall them immediately.
If the Northwest MEC is at fault, then the NWA rank and file needs to understand that so they can deal with it.
Whichever way it happened, we need to fix it fast. Before we let even more money slip through our fingers.
