Why DAL's proposed ratio is inequitable
#281
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
This sounds like "the chicken or the egg" paradox.
Does NWA's MEC oppose the merger because there is no joint contract/SLI?
Or....is there no joint contract/SLI because the NWA MEC opposes the merger and won't negotiate them?
I've heard it both ways on this forum...which is it?
Does NWA's MEC oppose the merger because there is no joint contract/SLI?
Or....is there no joint contract/SLI because the NWA MEC opposes the merger and won't negotiate them?
I've heard it both ways on this forum...which is it?
Please note the "opposed" statement wasn't released until LOA 19 came out. That would mean that it's number 1: NWA's MEC opposes the merger because there is no joint contract/SLI, just as I stated in the post which you quoted.
#282
This sounds like "the chicken or the egg" paradox.
Does NWA's MEC oppose the merger because there is no joint contract/SLI?
Or....is there no joint contract/SLI because the NWA MEC opposes the merger and won't negotiate them?
I've heard it both ways on this forum...which is it?
Does NWA's MEC oppose the merger because there is no joint contract/SLI?
Or....is there no joint contract/SLI because the NWA MEC opposes the merger and won't negotiate them?
I've heard it both ways on this forum...which is it?
or the 3rd variable
is there no joint contract/SLI because Delta MEC walked away from negotiations
#283
...and that MEC language is important. They are opposed to the merger AS IT STANDS. That is how I've read it most every time. They use that language for a reason and the reason is they want to use their leverage and negotiate.... Our DAL MEC has historically put out many similar tough-sounding statements that allowed them to portray and image of strength while simultaneously allowing wiggle room for negotiations.
So 757dtw, don't be so shocked when your MEC negotiates a transition agreement this fall, shuts down the strike centers, and poses for the group handshake photo shoot with Moak, Anderson, and Bastian. Or you can continue to be the angry mashmallow trying to stop the steamroller.
Successful species adapt to change...
So 757dtw, don't be so shocked when your MEC negotiates a transition agreement this fall, shuts down the strike centers, and poses for the group handshake photo shoot with Moak, Anderson, and Bastian. Or you can continue to be the angry mashmallow trying to stop the steamroller.
Successful species adapt to change...
Here's to our successful advance up the ring of evolution.
#286
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,224
Slotted seniority has real problems. How do you account for the next merger? Do you slot all the way through the seniority list? That creates a huge blow for the junior NWA pilots. There are other options other then a dynamic list. A dynamic list means 20 more years of arbitration rulings like the current NW. We don't need that. I would split the difference between a ratio and DOH and even give NWA fences on the 747's with no fences on 777 ordered after the DCC.
#287
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
How does slotted seniority work when the airline begins to shrink, i.e. the freighters sold (jobs gone) and DAL 777's used to fill the landing slots at NRT? Or the DC-9-30's go to the desert, while used MD-90's are traded for DAL rj's?
Does attrition work in both directions for each airline, or does your version of slotted seniority give you all upside attrition and "share" the downside with Delta pilots?
Sailingfun has some other interesting points to ponder. Also, when do you take the relative position snapshot for the slots, date of deal closing or Single Operating Certificate? Obviously NWA, which isn't taking any aircraft and is parking 3 742's and 15-20 additional airframes in the near term, wants that snapshot ASAP. DAL would prefer to wait for 22 new deliveries in the near term while seeing only 15 parked.
Does attrition work in both directions for each airline, or does your version of slotted seniority give you all upside attrition and "share" the downside with Delta pilots?
Sailingfun has some other interesting points to ponder. Also, when do you take the relative position snapshot for the slots, date of deal closing or Single Operating Certificate? Obviously NWA, which isn't taking any aircraft and is parking 3 742's and 15-20 additional airframes in the near term, wants that snapshot ASAP. DAL would prefer to wait for 22 new deliveries in the near term while seeing only 15 parked.
#288
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Slotted seniority has real problems. How do you account for the next merger? Do you slot all the way through the seniority list? That creates a huge blow for the junior NWA pilots. There are other options other then a dynamic list. A dynamic list means 20 more years of arbitration rulings like the current NW. We don't need that. I would split the difference between a ratio and DOH and even give NWA fences on the 747's with no fences on 777 ordered after the DCC.
Thanks, I'll pass. Straight ratio is the way to go, as it allows both parties to share the growth and the risk. If it's dynamic and slotted, it's got to work for good and bad attrition, so the risks and rewards are shared.
Last edited by slowplay; 05-02-2008 at 07:00 PM. Reason: 3rd grade spelling failure
#289
as of today, may 1 2008, the nwa mec, is opposed to this merger. i support the decision, up to and including a strike. nwa pilots need to focus our energies on setting up strike centers and getting prepared for walking picket lines. i do not want to bet a career on a delta loa number xxxx, with their assurance that it is really for the best interest of all involved.
Carl
#290
There we go, I figured we'd see the stereotypical NWA attitude here at some point. So much for working together...?
News flash: The merger's going to happen, you're not going to strike, and no amount of ****ing and moaning is going to change it.
If you want to make a statement...quit.
News flash: The merger's going to happen, you're not going to strike, and no amount of ****ing and moaning is going to change it.
If you want to make a statement...quit.
One post where someone mentions a strike and you mouth off with this "stereotypical NWA attitude" comment!??! And then you say "so much for working together??" We've had plenty of intemperate posts from DAL folks (a lot of them from you) and I don't recall anyone from NWA talking about typical Delta attitudes. Step down off the ledge dude.
I would also look closely at where you're getting your news flashes. This merger is a long, long way from being done. There's only about a thousand things that could trip this up. My hope is that we can close the deal, but we've got a lot of hurdles yet to leap.
Carl