Why DAL's proposed ratio is inequitable
#421
Sailingfun,
I agree with you about the -9. But unless you are saying that the combined carrier is going to dump Cargo, the -200s are here for awhile. At least till the combined company has enoungh 777 business to hold the use or lose NRT slots. Yes, it's a real balanceing act the old NWA board has struggled with for a couple of years now.
With the current trade imbalance we fly FULL cargo out of most places in China, but empty going in. I agree that can't last........but what do do with NRT? Without NRT and no authority for point to point in Asia, this whole merger thing is a moot discussion.
Ferd
I agree with you about the -9. But unless you are saying that the combined carrier is going to dump Cargo, the -200s are here for awhile. At least till the combined company has enoungh 777 business to hold the use or lose NRT slots. Yes, it's a real balanceing act the old NWA board has struggled with for a couple of years now.
With the current trade imbalance we fly FULL cargo out of most places in China, but empty going in. I agree that can't last........but what do do with NRT? Without NRT and no authority for point to point in Asia, this whole merger thing is a moot discussion.
Ferd
#422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,258
The rumor I heard was that 747-400 would be converted to cargo and replaced in passenger service with 777's. The point to point in Asia however may not be that huge. With the advent of the 787 coming on line there will be a lot more direct service to smaller cities in Asia bye passing hubs. Much like what happened in Europe and doomed Deltas point to point out of Frankfurt.
#423
Yeah, don't know. I know the -400 freighter has been kicked around but my understanding is the -400s extended upper deck is dead space (don't know all the details) and add the huge expense to convert them............ Just don't know. I've heard Boeing is talking about used car type trade ins for the -800, but that is still on the drawing boards. Also, Boeing rolled out the 777 freighter just a few days ago. Who knows.
That was the game plan for the 787, skip NRT. But I've never heard dropping it completely, still have too many mass transit folks going to the old country that will need a big jet and a connection.
I hope we don't drop cargo. It's hurting right now, but so is UPS and to some extent FredEX. But, it should come back at some point. It was a real bright spot for us during the dark days after 9/11.
Ferd
That was the game plan for the 787, skip NRT. But I've never heard dropping it completely, still have too many mass transit folks going to the old country that will need a big jet and a connection.
I hope we don't drop cargo. It's hurting right now, but so is UPS and to some extent FredEX. But, it should come back at some point. It was a real bright spot for us during the dark days after 9/11.
Ferd
#424
The rumor I heard was that 747-400 would be converted to cargo and replaced in passenger service with 777's. The point to point in Asia however may not be that huge. With the advent of the 787 coming on line there will be a lot more direct service to smaller cities in Asia bye passing hubs. Much like what happened in Europe and doomed Deltas point to point out of Frankfurt.
We carry a LOT of Japaneese passengers from Japan to other points, not just in the U.S. The Japaneese take NWA to Singapore, South Korea (Busan & Seoul), Guam, Saipan, Hong Kong, China, ect.
When you go over there you will see. It's an impressive operation. Not like anything going on in Frankfurt or Amsterdam. NRT-NGO-KIX will not go away any time soon because of this. Otherwise the airline would be losing out on a lot of good yen (which is worth a whole lot more than the U.S. dollar).
New K Now
#425
I'm not sure the DAL guys understand how much revenue we generate flying folks from one point in asia to another in asia through the NRT hub. Sure, the 777LR and 787 will be great from the states to points in Asia, but the traffic Guam to China or Saipan to Singapore, etc, still needs to gather full loads at a hub to maximize the cash flow.
Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.
Cheers
Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.
Cheers
#426
I'm not sure the DAL guys understand how much revenue we generate flying folks from one point in asia to another in asia through the NRT hub. Sure, the 777LR and 787 will be great from the states to points in Asia, but the traffic Guam to China or Saipan to Singapore, etc, still needs to gather full loads at a hub to maximize the cash flow.
Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.
Cheers
Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.
Cheers
Have a good tour in the sandbox, stay safe my friend. Thanks for your service!
Ferd
NWA
Last edited by Ferd149; 05-26-2008 at 09:40 AM.
#427
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 57
I'm not sure the DAL guys understand how much revenue we generate flying folks from one point in asia to another in asia through the NRT hub. Sure, the 777LR and 787 will be great from the states to points in Asia, but the traffic Guam to China or Saipan to Singapore, etc, still needs to gather full loads at a hub to maximize the cash flow.
Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.
Cheers
Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.
Cheers
Godspeed to you. Hopefully, upon your return we will be one big happy family.
#428
tsquare,
The reason we're so convinced that we'll have retirements on the NWA side has nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with Federal law. Let's say that no NWA or DAL pilots want to retire until 65 because the new Delta is just too cool to leave. Everyone's birthday is an absolutely known quantity. Thus everyone's MANDATORY retirement date is also a known quantity. When you do the math, NWA has a much greater retirement rate for the next 5 to 10 years than does DAL. This is not my opinion, it is math and math is stubborn.
As far as DAL's growth strategy....I'll be looking forward to see how DAL management makes the business case for that. From what I see, ticket prices are going to have to go up - and a lot. That will pull a lot of people out of airline seats, and those seats (along with the employees that service them) will have to be parked. If DAL management truly thinks that this is the enviornment from which they can grow, then DAL is in very big trouble. Fortunately for the DAL employees, I think DAL management is "fibbing" when they say DAL has a growth strategy. I believe that rhetoric is strictly reserved for getting this merger through Congress, then business reality will set in.
Carl
The reason we're so convinced that we'll have retirements on the NWA side has nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with Federal law. Let's say that no NWA or DAL pilots want to retire until 65 because the new Delta is just too cool to leave. Everyone's birthday is an absolutely known quantity. Thus everyone's MANDATORY retirement date is also a known quantity. When you do the math, NWA has a much greater retirement rate for the next 5 to 10 years than does DAL. This is not my opinion, it is math and math is stubborn.
As far as DAL's growth strategy....I'll be looking forward to see how DAL management makes the business case for that. From what I see, ticket prices are going to have to go up - and a lot. That will pull a lot of people out of airline seats, and those seats (along with the employees that service them) will have to be parked. If DAL management truly thinks that this is the enviornment from which they can grow, then DAL is in very big trouble. Fortunately for the DAL employees, I think DAL management is "fibbing" when they say DAL has a growth strategy. I believe that rhetoric is strictly reserved for getting this merger through Congress, then business reality will set in.
Carl
Concerning the "growth strategy". You have your opinion, and I have mine. I do know that we are taking deliveries of 777s in the near future. (less than 6 months away) NWA will take delivery of 787s.... when?
#429
That may be true.. that we have announced reductions too, but we are replacing smaller aircraft with larger ones. I made a faux pas by assuming there would be a net gain in widebody flying, and to me that is growth. Time will tell anyway, and this argument is getting really old.
#430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
Same for NWA and your 747s, champ.