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Old 05-26-2008, 03:09 PM   #431  
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Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.

Cheers
Cheers F16 Dude!! Stay safe - and when you get back, your money will be no good for beer or food if I'm around. I don't think it is lost on any of us that we get to debate these trivial subjects in the comfort of our homes because of your service and the rest of our great military.

Carl
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:26 PM   #432  
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Carl, Keep in mind that Dalpa agreed to give you credit for those retirements. However they wanted that same credit to extend to when Delta has more retirements. It crushed your junior pilots.
And you know this how?? The NWA reps say just the opposite, but because I haven't seen DALPA's last proposal, I don't know...and neither do you.

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I agree with you on the coming shrinkage however the first aircraft to go are the nines and 747-200's.
If I were to say that the first planes to go will be the MD88's and 737's followed by the old 767's, that would just be ignorant on my part. I don't have any idea for certain about that as I am not in DAL management. Do I need to say how much credence your statement has regarding the NWA fleet??

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Since the gains via retirements will be shared only by each individual airline should not the pain of fleet reductions be shared the same?
This is quite simple really. Before the merger is consummated, all reductions in fleets should be borne by their respective pilot groups. After the merger is consummated, airplanes that go away should be borne by the pilot group of the new Delta, since it is the new Delta that would be making the decisions about fleet. I know you find some kind of inconsistency about that, but I totally disagree. Retirements are a must - of that there can be no argument. They will happen regardless of a merger. Fleet reductions as the result OF a merger are completely different because they can happen or not happen as a result of managerial decision making by the new airline. Retirements happen without regard to any management.

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Old 05-26-2008, 03:38 PM   #433  
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The rumor I heard was that 747-400 would be converted to cargo and replaced in passenger service with 777's.
That rumor couldn't be more wrong. 747-400 conversions are not a viable option because of the stretched upper deck. It limits you on both weight and volume and that is death if you try to compete with folks that operate 747-400F's.

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The point to point in Asia however may not be that huge. With the advent of the 787 coming on line there will be a lot more direct service to smaller cities in Asia bye passing hubs. Much like what happened in Europe and doomed Deltas point to point out of Frankfurt.
If you really think that the Tokyo hub will go the way of Delta's Frankfurt operation, then you guys should be fighting this merger every step of the way.

You mention the 787's...what 787's? I thought that all those pictures of NWA's first 787's being completed on the Boeing assembly line were fakes or something.

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Old 05-26-2008, 03:45 PM   #434  
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But Carl, hasn't it been you that has been saying that NWA guys are gonna leave PRIOR to reaching age 65, and that that is a given?
It is a given. It's happening every day at NWA. We are still having a significant number of early (before 60) retirements. I was simply trying to be consistent by picking age 65 as the worst case scenario for the younger pilots.

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Concerning the "growth strategy". You have your opinion, and I have mine. I do know that we are taking deliveries of 777s in the near future. (less than 6 months away) NWA will take delivery of 787s.... when?
NWA won't be taking delivery of the 787.... DAL will. If the merger happens.

And good luck on that growth strategy.

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Old 05-26-2008, 08:45 PM   #435  
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Same for NWA and your 747s, champ.
I don't have any 747's either.
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Old 05-27-2008, 05:04 AM   #436  
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I don't have any 747's either.
fair enough... I'm happy to declare a truce and stop being an ass.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:06 AM   #437  
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It is a given. It's happening every day at NWA. We are still having a significant number of early (before 60) retirements. I was simply trying to be consistent by picking age 65 as the worst case scenario for the younger pilots.



NWA won't be taking delivery of the 787.... DAL will. If the merger happens.

And good luck on that growth strategy.

Carl
First of all, I have never referred to anything as a growth "strategy". All I did was to ASSUME that since DAL is taking deliveries of 777s, 737-7s, and only parking M88s, that there would be a growth component. Nothing more. It very well could result in a net loss of pilot seats, but it will result in a net gain of widebody seats. Call it what you will.

Oh, and nice deflection with the 787 thingy. My wager is that they get converted to 777s anyway, but it is all conjecture on my part, and frankly, I hope I am right, so they will appear before YOU retire... at age 65, right?
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:42 AM   #438  
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fair enough... I'm happy to declare a truce and stop being an ass.

The truce is on then!!
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:13 AM   #439  
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fair enough... I'm happy to declare a truce and stop being an ass.
I just saw a pig fly and the mountains in hell are snow capped. It is a monumental day...
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:04 AM   #440  
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Default I'll walk before surrendering 1 number!!!

I can't take it anymore!! Been reading these posts for a while and I can't stay on the sidelines anymore.
I am top 1% at NWA, and I will walk before any DAL guy bumps me to 2%! I have waited decades to be the top dog on the whale, and I'll be D#%$&d if someone with one day less time at DAL is placed ahead of me on any SLI. Right now I will retire at 65 as #3, no DAL guy is going to make me leave as #4! I have been through strikes, pay cuts and two divorces to make it here. I have had to sell one of my boats and a vacation home just to keep making my corvette and hummer payments since the pay reduction. I won't trade my seniority for more pay as that just means my two ex-wives will get more alimony. My seniority status is all that my girlfriend and I have now. No way I will stick around to suffer the humiliation of being junior to someone younger then me with less time at his (or her, god forbid) airline. For all you junior NWA people who want to make nice with DALPA and their lies should be ashamed. Us old guys went through h#ll to get what we have, and you are all willing to just throw us geezers under the bus for a measley 35% raise. I can not believe what this industry has come to. Again, I can't take it. I am going to take all 6 weeks of my vacation now just so I don't go crazy!!! Whales and my seniority forever!!!!
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