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Why DAL's proposed ratio is inequitable

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Why DAL's proposed ratio is inequitable

Old 05-26-2008, 04:46 AM
  #421  
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Sailingfun,

I agree with you about the -9. But unless you are saying that the combined carrier is going to dump Cargo, the -200s are here for awhile. At least till the combined company has enoungh 777 business to hold the use or lose NRT slots. Yes, it's a real balanceing act the old NWA board has struggled with for a couple of years now.

With the current trade imbalance we fly FULL cargo out of most places in China, but empty going in. I agree that can't last........but what do do with NRT? Without NRT and no authority for point to point in Asia, this whole merger thing is a moot discussion.

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Old 05-26-2008, 05:37 AM
  #422  
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The rumor I heard was that 747-400 would be converted to cargo and replaced in passenger service with 777's. The point to point in Asia however may not be that huge. With the advent of the 787 coming on line there will be a lot more direct service to smaller cities in Asia bye passing hubs. Much like what happened in Europe and doomed Deltas point to point out of Frankfurt.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:00 AM
  #423  
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Yeah, don't know. I know the -400 freighter has been kicked around but my understanding is the -400s extended upper deck is dead space (don't know all the details) and add the huge expense to convert them............ Just don't know. I've heard Boeing is talking about used car type trade ins for the -800, but that is still on the drawing boards. Also, Boeing rolled out the 777 freighter just a few days ago. Who knows.

That was the game plan for the 787, skip NRT. But I've never heard dropping it completely, still have too many mass transit folks going to the old country that will need a big jet and a connection.

I hope we don't drop cargo. It's hurting right now, but so is UPS and to some extent FredEX. But, it should come back at some point. It was a real bright spot for us during the dark days after 9/11.

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Old 05-26-2008, 09:01 AM
  #424  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
The rumor I heard was that 747-400 would be converted to cargo and replaced in passenger service with 777's. The point to point in Asia however may not be that huge. With the advent of the 787 coming on line there will be a lot more direct service to smaller cities in Asia bye passing hubs. Much like what happened in Europe and doomed Deltas point to point out of Frankfurt.

We carry a LOT of Japaneese passengers from Japan to other points, not just in the U.S. The Japaneese take NWA to Singapore, South Korea (Busan & Seoul), Guam, Saipan, Hong Kong, China, ect.

When you go over there you will see. It's an impressive operation. Not like anything going on in Frankfurt or Amsterdam. NRT-NGO-KIX will not go away any time soon because of this. Otherwise the airline would be losing out on a lot of good yen (which is worth a whole lot more than the U.S. dollar).

New K Now
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:06 AM
  #425  
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I'm not sure the DAL guys understand how much revenue we generate flying folks from one point in asia to another in asia through the NRT hub. Sure, the 777LR and 787 will be great from the states to points in Asia, but the traffic Guam to China or Saipan to Singapore, etc, still needs to gather full loads at a hub to maximize the cash flow.

Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.

Cheers
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:29 AM
  #426  
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Originally Posted by nwaf16dude View Post
I'm not sure the DAL guys understand how much revenue we generate flying folks from one point in asia to another in asia through the NRT hub. Sure, the 777LR and 787 will be great from the states to points in Asia, but the traffic Guam to China or Saipan to Singapore, etc, still needs to gather full loads at a hub to maximize the cash flow.

Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.

Cheers

Have a good tour in the sandbox, stay safe my friend. Thanks for your service!

Ferd
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Last edited by Ferd149; 05-26-2008 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:07 AM
  #427  
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Originally Posted by nwaf16dude View Post
I'm not sure the DAL guys understand how much revenue we generate flying folks from one point in asia to another in asia through the NRT hub. Sure, the 777LR and 787 will be great from the states to points in Asia, but the traffic Guam to China or Saipan to Singapore, etc, still needs to gather full loads at a hub to maximize the cash flow.

Anyway...I'm out of here for four months in the sandbox...how about you guys get this whole thing figured out and smoothed over before I get back.

Cheers


Godspeed to you. Hopefully, upon your return we will be one big happy family.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:17 AM
  #428  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
tsquare,

The reason we're so convinced that we'll have retirements on the NWA side has nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with Federal law. Let's say that no NWA or DAL pilots want to retire until 65 because the new Delta is just too cool to leave. Everyone's birthday is an absolutely known quantity. Thus everyone's MANDATORY retirement date is also a known quantity. When you do the math, NWA has a much greater retirement rate for the next 5 to 10 years than does DAL. This is not my opinion, it is math and math is stubborn.

As far as DAL's growth strategy....I'll be looking forward to see how DAL management makes the business case for that. From what I see, ticket prices are going to have to go up - and a lot. That will pull a lot of people out of airline seats, and those seats (along with the employees that service them) will have to be parked. If DAL management truly thinks that this is the enviornment from which they can grow, then DAL is in very big trouble. Fortunately for the DAL employees, I think DAL management is "fibbing" when they say DAL has a growth strategy. I believe that rhetoric is strictly reserved for getting this merger through Congress, then business reality will set in.

Carl
But Carl, hasn't it been you that has been saying that NWA guys are gonna leave PRIOR to reaching age 65, and that that is a given? FWIW, I agree with you regarding actual attainment of age 65. Can't argue with that fact.

Concerning the "growth strategy". You have your opinion, and I have mine. I do know that we are taking deliveries of 777s in the near future. (less than 6 months away) NWA will take delivery of 787s.... when?
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:23 AM
  #429  
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Originally Posted by newKnow View Post
tsquare,

Why are you so convinced the NWA fleet is dwindling compared to DAL? Didn't you guys announce reductions, too?

That may be true.. that we have announced reductions too, but we are replacing smaller aircraft with larger ones. I made a faux pas by assuming there would be a net gain in widebody flying, and to me that is growth. Time will tell anyway, and this argument is getting really old.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:44 PM
  #430  
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Originally Posted by newKnow View Post
Spaceman,

YOU don't have a 767. You will fly whatever aircraft Delta, "The New Delta" or "Global Delta" tells you you and your seniority can fly. So, just sit back, stop trying to insult Northwest pilots, and enjoy the ride. Really. Good luck to you.

New K Now
Same for NWA and your 747s, champ.
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