Pineapple Guy

I had to repeat it, because apparently you didn't understand it the first two times it was stated. There is nothing inconsistent between my position and Lee Moak's statement that after the merger we will ALL be DELTA pilots. We will be, but we will be operating under TWO SEPARATE CONTRACTS, and DALPA has no authority to renegotiate YOUR contract.

There. Perhap's 4th time's a charm.

PG

AV8ER13

You just said it! YOU GET EQUITY, I do not. Tell me how that is fair, ...I will say maybe cash but not equity in the merged company...atleast not unless ALL get it. You should not get advantages (equity in a merged company) that NWA Pilots dont get. NWA pilots are just affected by a merged company, Not just DALPA. I understand you gave up contact issues to ease the merger, but you should get current DAL money not after the merger money (b.c. its all the pilots not just yours). You guys are benefitting (get money from the merged company) that we are not.

DO you really think that the company is going to give just the NWA pilots equity when we get SLI to make up for that no...IF we were even lucky to get anything more from a merged contract (b.c. mgmt is going to try and say...sorry guys, Gas is to much. u get nothing more than DAL contract), any new equity in the company would then have to split by ALL pilots, leaving the NWA pilots out in the cold! Would u diagree?

I reserve the right to have spelling and grammar errors!

Ferd149

Ahhhhhhh thats not the way I read if either. If if all works WE do a contract then an SLI then the merger closes and presto, one big hat wearing family. (in answer to Pineapple)

Jay5150

Carl & Ferd,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on it then.

I read Moak's letter and your highlighted portion as a,.. I don't know, statement of working together. But no matter how you read it, you can't just say we are all one and have it be so.

How 'bout this: explain to me how LOA 19 should read.

Sould it say, no furloughs from either DAL's seniority list -or- from the seniority list of NWA. If we are working under 2 seperate contracts (and we will be until an SLI is agreed on, just like AWA/USAIR), I don't see how a LOA to the DAL contract would have any bearing on the NWA contract. This LOA was signed in the present. PRE MERGER. How is the DAL MEC going to negotiate an LOA that would, at this point, have to be agreed to and signed by NWA management?

Carl Spackler

I'll try one last time with you and then I'm done. Please read slowly...You say DALPA has no authority to renegotiate OUR contract. I've never said they did. What I HAVE said is that DALPA already DID negotiate on our BEHALF when DALPA negotiated an LOA that has a scope change that DIRECTLY affects NWA's ability to continue flying wide bodies on international routes. DALPA also DID negotiate pay rates for NWA aircraft when they signed LOA 19. Get it..it's not that hard.

Now here's the point: It's not that DALPA has any authority to renegotiate our contract. My point is: Since DALPA negotiated an LOA that directly affects NWA pilots, renegotiate THAT LOA to provide for shared furloughs and escrowed pay raises.

I don't know how to explain it any clearer. You'll either see another side to this or you won't.

Carl

Ferd149

AMF
Headed for the gate. Good discussion, yup kids play nice.
Ferd

Jay5150

Explain to me how DALPA can negotiate anything for NWA pilots. They have no authority to negotiate with NWA management for anything, and they are still your bosses.

Or are you saying that DALPA should have said, "No, that's OK. We'll relax our scope clauses and we want nothing in return. We could get pay raises etc. that will benefeit all 12,000 eventually, but no, we'll all just start from zero whenever we get a SLI worked out or one is arbitrated."

FlyingSig

Yeah, it's not fair. Bummer. Even more of a bummer is the fact that NWA flight attendents will get equity but not you. NWA gate agents will get equity but not you. Even the NWA rampers get it too.... everybody but you. So is it DALPA's fault that they get it but not you or was it your MEC's fault? Perhaps the Mexican vacation should have been cut short a day or two....

I'm getting payment for allowing my scope clause to be relaxed. I guess the rest of the new global airline is getting it just because...not really sure really. Bottom line you could have gotten the same equity but your leadership said they didn't want it.

And NWA shareholders are getting paid a premium because NWA stock is being swapped for DAL stock. This hurts current DAL shareholders and dilutes my equity stake. I don't see you crying a river for me (nor should you) but that whine is running rapid.

Nope, honestly I believe that boat set sail on April 14. You'll get pay parity( ie big raises for you), you'll get work rule parity (ie better work rules for pilots), you'll get DC parity and your DB will continue to stay funded.... but like you, I don't see any equity coming your way. Your MEC took the position that if they didn't "win" then the strategy is to scuttle the deal.... eventually (maybe sooner then later) your MEC will see the flaw in trying to stop a freight train barehanded and that the merger is going to happen with or without them. My MEC took on a different strategy and that's why I got equity. When we have our big kumbyya session and elect the "new" MEC, I know which folks I want working for me (hint: they got me equity instead of thumping their chests)
(b.c. mgmt is going to try and say...sorry guys, Gas is to much. u get nothing more than DAL contract), any new equity in the company would then have to split by ALL pilots, leaving the NWA pilots out in the cold! Would u diagree?

As do I.

I realize I probably seem like an arrogant prick to and in my years lurking on this board never posted...but guys like Carl who are living in a dilussion parallel universe have been annoying the heck out of me lately.

Bottom line, it is what it is, the merger is going to happen... a joint contract is going to happen, a SLI is going to happen.... we can work together and negotiate something that we all half like and hate or we can fight each other the whole way and have one side hate everything... no matter how we get there it's going to happen.

We can't change the economy, we're not going to stop this merger, and we can't rewrite history.

Superpilot92

So far i think this is the best comment thus far in regards to these monotonous discussions. Nicely done

Carl Spackler

Well, I actually think your Chairman meant what he said. At this point I believe you're reading something else into what he said. If not, then he is some kind of Clintonesque "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. Right now I choose to believe his printed words.

I think a furlough should be done on a ratio between the totals of both pre-merger pilot groups.

Okay, I get it now. You guys are hoping I'll get tired of explaining this over and over. I am getting tired of it, but here goes: The LOA 19 already DID have a bearing on NWA. Your scope changes allow our wide bodies to fly internationally. Without the scope changes we would have to PARK wide bodies from Northwest Airlines because of an LOA signed by Delta Airlines and DALPA. I'm not asking for you to negotiate a new LOA, I'm asking to amend the one you ALREADY signed. You know, the one that DIRECTLY affects NWA. And why would NWA have to sign off on it, they didn't sign off on LOA 19 did they?

Carl