A newspaper's summation of DAL/NWA
04-23-2008, 11:08 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
My suggestions are still possible with an amended LOA. It would be easy to do. Is anyone at DALPA listening?
Carl
Now you want an amended LOA. Tell you what, you get your MEC to negotiate a joint contract prior to the deal closing, and I'll demand my MEC throw out the LOA.
I'm starting to see the same pattern in your posts that our MEC reported with NWALPA. They kept bringing problems, and DALPA solved them. Then they'd invent new problems, and DALPA would work on solving them. But they never could close a complete deal....
04-23-2008, 12:11 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Since they already bargained for us, they could have included both groups in the no furlough clause - but they didn't.
They could have bargained for the new pay rates, but then escrowed any amounts received after the merger's closing for distribution to ALL pilots when the joint contract and SLI are complete - but they didn't.
This in spite of the fact that after the merger closes, Captain Moak states that all 12000 plus of us will be DELTA pilots.
My suggestions are still possible with an amended LOA. It would be easy to do. Is anyone at DALPA listening?
Carl
My suggestions are still possible with an amended LOA. It would be easy to do. Is anyone at DALPA listening?
Carl
04-23-2008, 03:51 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by FlyingSig
They couldn't... the no furlough is also tied into the transition agreement. During this agreement you are still NWA with NWA managment. The no furlough resets at start of LOA19 but doesn't happen without the MTA.
Originally Posted by FlyingSig
We did negotiate for new pay rates. Delta now has published 747, Airbus, and DC9 rates significantly above NWA book rates. You're welcome.
Originally Posted by FlyingSig
An amended LOA is not possible. Not easy to do, but impossible to do.
Originally Posted by FlyingSig
think DAL/NWA is going to give any more gains in an amended LOA without us giving up things from LOA19? Not a chance in the world....yet you say it's easy to do. I should give up my equity stake to get you payrates in escrow?
Carl
04-23-2008, 03:58 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by slowplay
I thought your concerns regarding intent were going to be addressed if there was a press release stating DALPA would negotiate. A press release was done.
Now you want an amended LOA. Tell you what, you get your MEC to negotiate a joint contract prior to the deal closing, and I'll demand my MEC throw out the LOA.
I'm starting to see the same pattern in your posts that our MEC reported with NWALPA. They kept bringing problems, and DALPA solved them. Then they'd invent new problems, and DALPA would work on solving them. But they never could close a complete deal....
Now you want an amended LOA. Tell you what, you get your MEC to negotiate a joint contract prior to the deal closing, and I'll demand my MEC throw out the LOA.
I'm starting to see the same pattern in your posts that our MEC reported with NWALPA. They kept bringing problems, and DALPA solved them. Then they'd invent new problems, and DALPA would work on solving them. But they never could close a complete deal....
The press conference that I predicted would happen was one where a time and place would be announced to return to negotiations. The only thing in these press releases so far is the INTENT to negotiate in the NEAR FUTURE. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a very positive step.
As far as what you see as a pattern, that is your opinion on negotiations that you did not attend. You're speculating on rumor, then devising an opinion. That's you're right, I just think it's a waste of time. Let's wait for real facts, then we can debate.
Carl
04-23-2008, 04:06 PM
#15
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Carl correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that your understanding is that once the merger is approved, that we are all DAL pilots.
I don't understand that to be the case. If an SLI cannot be agreed upon by the commencement of the merger, then we are still 2 seperate seniority lists with 2 seperate contracts when the merger begins.
It is because of this that it would be impossible to negotiate NWA furlough protection (or anything else) in LOA 19.
**my personal opinion and hope**
is that an agreement will be reached prior to the merger commencing giving protections and improvements to all, and LOA 19 will just go away. But until then, it's the only improvements that anyone will get unless the north guys have some leverage to negotiate with NW management.
I don't understand that to be the case. If an SLI cannot be agreed upon by the commencement of the merger, then we are still 2 seperate seniority lists with 2 seperate contracts when the merger begins.
It is because of this that it would be impossible to negotiate NWA furlough protection (or anything else) in LOA 19.
**my personal opinion and hope**
is that an agreement will be reached prior to the merger commencing giving protections and improvements to all, and LOA 19 will just go away. But until then, it's the only improvements that anyone will get unless the north guys have some leverage to negotiate with NW management.
04-23-2008, 04:08 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Of course they COULD have, they CHOSE not to. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to write LOA 19 with a no furlough clause that applied to ALL Delta pilots after the merger closes. It was a choice not to do so. To imply that it was impossible is just silly. If that is impossible, then how could any of us hope to actually operate an airline?
Carl,
DALPA had no authority to negotiate contractual changes to the NWALPA contract. Each pilot group still operates under its own contract after the merger closes, until a joint contract is negotiated. That takes the NWALPA negotiating committee. If you want to get mad at someone for NWALPA not negotiating a no furlough clause, talk to your negotiating committee.
PG
04-23-2008, 04:10 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
First of all, I have always wanted an amended LOA. I've called for that way before asking for a press conference. You seem to be implying that I'm guilty of "mission creep" and that is just not so. All of our posts are dated.
The press conference that I predicted would happen was one where a time and place would be announced to return to negotiations. The only thing in these press releases so far is the INTENT to negotiate in the NEAR FUTURE. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a very positive step.
As far as what you see as a pattern, that is your opinion on negotiations that you did not attend. You're speculating on rumor, then devising an opinion. That's you're right, I just think it's a waste of time. Let's wait for real facts, then we can debate.
Carl
The press conference that I predicted would happen was one where a time and place would be announced to return to negotiations. The only thing in these press releases so far is the INTENT to negotiate in the NEAR FUTURE. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a very positive step.
As far as what you see as a pattern, that is your opinion on negotiations that you did not attend. You're speculating on rumor, then devising an opinion. That's you're right, I just think it's a waste of time. Let's wait for real facts, then we can debate.
Carl
Give Lee a break. After all he is just a pilot, its not like he is the Dalai Lama. Besides, time will be the best judge of this situation. Soon enough it will obvious for all to see. No use arguing now - lets just wait and see how this all plays out.
Scoop
04-23-2008, 04:58 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Jay5150
Carl correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that your understanding is that once the merger is approved, that we are all DAL pilots.
I don't understand that to be the case. If an SLI cannot be agreed upon by the commencement of the merger, then we are still 2 seperate seniority lists with 2 seperate contracts when the merger begins.
It is because of this that it would be impossible to negotiate NWA furlough protection (or anything else) in LOA 19.
I don't understand that to be the case. If an SLI cannot be agreed upon by the commencement of the merger, then we are still 2 seperate seniority lists with 2 seperate contracts when the merger begins.
It is because of this that it would be impossible to negotiate NWA furlough protection (or anything else) in LOA 19.
Either you or the DALPA Chairman is wrong. Below is a reprint from his April 21 letter with my emphasis added:
"We have always acted sincerely with the best interests of our fellow pilots in mind, and make no mistake, once the corporate transaction closes, the Delta and Northwest pilots will all be Delta pilots. The ethics of integrity, fairness and professionalism must not be compromised as we transition to a group over 12,000 strong."
I reiterate that this is not impossible. In fact it is terribly easy, adds no additional cost to Delta Airlines, and can be done with the stroke of a pen.
Carl
04-23-2008, 05:00 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Carl,
DALPA had no authority to negotiate contractual changes to the NWALPA contract. Each pilot group still operates under its own contract after the merger closes, until a joint contract is negotiated. That takes the NWALPA negotiating committee. If you want to get mad at someone for NWALPA not negotiating a no furlough clause, talk to your negotiating committee.
PG
[/color]
DALPA had no authority to negotiate contractual changes to the NWALPA contract. Each pilot group still operates under its own contract after the merger closes, until a joint contract is negotiated. That takes the NWALPA negotiating committee. If you want to get mad at someone for NWALPA not negotiating a no furlough clause, talk to your negotiating committee.
PG
[/color]
Carl
04-23-2008, 05:02 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by Scoop
C'mon Carl,
Give Lee a break. After all he is just a pilot, its not like he is the Dalai Lama. Besides, time will be the best judge of this situation. Soon enough it will obvious for all to see. No use arguing now - lets just wait and see how this all plays out.
Scoop
Give Lee a break. After all he is just a pilot, its not like he is the Dalai Lama. Besides, time will be the best judge of this situation. Soon enough it will obvious for all to see. No use arguing now - lets just wait and see how this all plays out.
Scoop
Carl
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