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Old 04-23-2008, 06:58 PM   #41  
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You're right, Carl. So based on your rationale, I'm having Lee Moake draft LOA 20 dictating that as soon as a NWA 747-400 captain hits 150 posts on APC, he gets displaced to MSP as a lav dumper. I'm understanding you correctly, aren't I, since you are under the belief that we can make changes to YOUR contract?

Wait, if DALPA can do this to NALPA, this must be a two-way street. Brilliant. Why don't you have your negotiating committee come up with an LOA that would decrease our pay rates by 50%, since you're so sure we're sticking it to you guys.

Seriously, Carl. I suggest you read Jay5150's post again explaining that the scope changes you keep referring to would apply to any carrier, not just NWA.

Yes, the changes to our contract have a very real impact on NWA operations, no question. And they were written with NWA in mind, no doubt. But they are still generic changes from a legal stand point. While they may impact you directly, the changes are indirect because they apply only to OUR contract, not yours. Semantics, perhaps, but when we're talking about legal documents, it's all about splitting the hairs. DALPA had no legal standing to negotiate a no-furlough clause for NWA pilots because that would have entailed a change to YOUR contract. Just as NALPA has no legal recourse to make a change to OUR contract.

And Lee's comment about ALL of us being Delta pilots when the merger closes, he's talking about being one in spirit, not as one pilot group in a legal sense. Until we can come up with a joint contract, of course.
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Old 04-23-2008, 08:39 PM   #42  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
I'm out of ideas. You can't explain something to someone who refuses to see it. Deep down inside I know the average Delta guy knows this smells to high heaven. I think the DALPA Chairman knows it too.

Carl
Uh..... nope. I looked deep and found nothing but a big heart and a clear conscience.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:05 AM   #43  
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Here is something for everyone that is calling DALPA the new "evil empire" to chew on. The following is straight from the ALPA By-laws. It is amazing what you can find when you look and try not to pontificate. Now I am going to do like some of my buddies at NWA have done and highlight the big words to draw attention to them.

B. JURISDICTION AND DUTIES OF LOCAL COUNCIL OFFICERS
(1) CHAIRMAN
The Chairman of the Local Council shall preside at all meetings thereof and at all meetings of the
Local Executive Council, except as he may otherwise specifically direct in accordance with paragraph
B(2) of this Section. He shall cause to be called all regular and special meetings of the Local
Executive Council and of the Local Council in accordance with the Constitution and By-Laws.
He shall be responsible for the expeditious processing of complaints and grievances of his Council
members and promoting their interests locally in whatever way possible.
He shall be charged with and responsible for implementing, administering and explaining the policies of his Local Executive
Council and Master Executive Council, the Board of Directors and Executive Board as they pertain
to his Local Council.

He shall be a member of the Master Executive Council of the airline and a
Director of the Association.
(2) VICE CHAIRMAN
In the absence of the Chairman, the Vice Chairman shall perform all of the duties of the Chairman
as provided in paragraph B(1) of this Section and such other duties that, from time to time, may be
specifically assigned to him by the Chairman. In addition, he shall be a member of the Master
Executive Council of the airline and a Director of the Association, except that the Vice Chairman of a
single status Local Council shall not be a member of the Master Executive Council or a Director of
the Association.
(3) SECRETARY-TREASURER
The Secretary-Treasurer of the Local Council shall assist the Chairman in administering Local
Council funds, maintaining Council records and perform such other duties that the Council
Chairman may assign to him. If he is also a Local Council Status Representative, he will be a
member of the Master Executive Council of the airline and a Director of the Association

Now I point this out because of all the complaints that DALPA was supposed to negotiate for NWA or they intentionaly negotiated a deal contrary to NWA's supposed position. I feel as if we are beating a dead horse but DALPA could not and did not have the ability to specifically negotiate an LOA for pilots they did not represent (NWA). That is addressed in the ALPA By-Laws. Now once the writting was on the wall that management wanted to push the deal through and NWA Negotiation committee appeared to be interested more in positioning than negoitiations then DALPA was left no choice but to protect the interests of "Their Pilots" , as described by the ALPA By Laws, and ensure the interests of their electorate. I think we can all agree that we would ask of nothing less from our elected representatives within the halls of Congress so why is everyone calling foul on DALPA's actions?

Now everyone.....Stop...take a deep breath....and relax...we will all be dissatisfied on one fashion or another soon enough.

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Old 04-24-2008, 05:13 AM   #44  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
At least you're admitting that the Delta LOA drastically changed flight operations at NWA.
Carl

No Carl, I am saying exactly the opposite. Had DALPA done nothing, NWA would have had to pull down flying in order for this merger to happen. And make no mistake, it is going to happen. As for your comment on the stock price, look around. Notice any pattern in this industry? So, I'm finished with this discussion. DALPA is bad... we shouldn't have done anything...
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Old 04-24-2008, 05:27 AM   #45  
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Carl: You OBVIOUSLY have WAAAAAAY too much time on your hands as a 747 captain, and you've been into the cooking sherry. You are going at this whole subject with one blind eye and one deaf ear, (and the sherry ain't helping either.)

I'll tell you what....I will trade YOUR payraise percentage in this contract LOA for 100% of MY equity from this deal....How about it ?????

PPP.

Oh...lay off the sherry dude!
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:07 AM   #46  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcall View Post
Now everyone.....Stop...take a deep breath....and relax...we will all be dissatisfied on one fashion or another soon enough.
I think that's the most accurate post I've read in a while!
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:23 PM   #47  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upndsky View Post
You're right, Carl. So based on your rationale, I'm having Lee Moake draft LOA 20 dictating that as soon as a NWA 747-400 captain hits 150 posts on APC, he gets displaced to MSP as a lav dumper. I'm understanding you correctly, aren't I, since you are under the belief that we can make changes to YOUR contract?
Now that is some funny stuff.
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