NWA/DELTA Roadshows
05-04-2008, 02:26 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I hope you understand that posts like yours contribute nothing. I know you have an opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's just your opinion. I'm pleased to see that most posts have moved beyond name calling and insults. The DALPA MEC has not engaged in that type of stuff either. You could take a lesson from it.
Carl
Carl
I second Carl, Spaceman. Your insults are out of style. We did that about a month ago. The whole "you guys screwed up," attitude is or at least should be over. Come back down to earth and join us in a real discussion. Both sides are to blame, now let's work together to come to an agreement that is beneficial to all.
Respectfully,
New K Now
05-04-2008, 06:35 PM
#12
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by newKnow
Both sides are to blame, now let's work together to come to an agreement that is beneficial to all.
Just a heads up for the guys recently hired on both sides, and especially for the X-mil guys who are used to dealing with honest men: If it's a management type and their lips are moving, then they're lying.
Finger pointing, blame laying, and vitriolic web postings do nothing but carry management's water. Are we so dumb that we keep falling for the same tricks?
Or not. Anyway, that's my opinion and if you don't agree, then YOUR WRONG!!! (OK, that last bit was TIC
)
05-04-2008, 11:37 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 7ER B
Posts: 145
Personally,
Instead of wasting millions on each side trying to figure out how to get along, why don't both MECs just host a huge keg party at a park in GA. We could all get together, get **** drunk, look at pretty girls and work this out over some good food.
Instead of wasting millions on each side trying to figure out how to get along, why don't both MECs just host a huge keg party at a park in GA. We could all get together, get **** drunk, look at pretty girls and work this out over some good food.
05-05-2008, 05:17 AM
#14
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,858
New Hire Alert
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spliff
They're "united" now and throwing spears to distract folks from the issue at hand: they dropped the ball. They're playing defense...trying to come up with some sort of rationale as to why they squandered their influence at the table with the grown-ups. Why are you guys letting them off the hook? Have you any idea how much money they cost you? (and all of us.)
This "backed into a corner" mentality is completely counterproductive. The merger's going to happen. Contrary to what they say, NWALPA can't stop it. Let's get the most money/best rules possible out of it (and ditch the hats)...and put it behind us.
This "backed into a corner" mentality is completely counterproductive. The merger's going to happen. Contrary to what they say, NWALPA can't stop it. Let's get the most money/best rules possible out of it (and ditch the hats)...and put it behind us.
05-05-2008, 06:55 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by ExAF
Before the merger entered the picture, I would have agreed with you. That may have been true in the past, but right now I think the NWA MEC is extremely cohesive and we have the impending merger to thank for that. Call it a united front against a common enemy or whatever you want, right now they are galvanized. I think it is like a dysfunctional family...they will be at each other throats until an outside force threatens one of the members, then its Katy bar the door! They rally, put all of their petty squabbles aside and unite to face the threat with a common front. I've never seen them so united before.
05-05-2008, 07:16 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
NWA MEC Communications:
A relative seniority list that looks great graphically on the day after the merger begs some questions: are the pilot demographics so perfectly matched that, as future attrition occurs, the list will continue to look great?
Therein lies the reason it seems the list negotiation wasn't successful. As a junior Delta pilot, I would like to see the NW side acknowledge all of the FUTURE Delta pilots retiring in greater numbers just after the NW exodus. If NW wants to receive credit, we should as well. The only way I see around it is some fluid system of awarding seniority credit when NW pilots retire vs DL pilots retiring to their original respective pilots. I think a list with relative seniority and this credit to its pilots would be fair. I think it would have to continue till the last pilot on either list retires that is on the list today. I think that would probably stretch out to almost 40 years. We have some pretty young new hires. I mean if we want to make it completely fair, right?? Having said that I think it would be divisive. You would be forever tied to the pre-merged group. And as the MEC statement above states, "as future attrition occurs, will the list continue to look great? Well it would depend on what side you were on and what year it is. I know DL has many more retiring over my career.
One other thing, the DL pilots have not sold anyone out. IMHO, I think our union has gone above and beyond to do the right thing in previous mergers (resulting in our own being furloughed) and how they treated others and me during furlough. Cobra benefits for years, emergency relief fund, etc. Of course, they haven't always made the best decisions, but LOA 19 is a good one IMO. We used what little leverage we had to raise the bar. It is a starting point for the joint contract. Nothing more. I would hope the majority at NW sees it this way. We need to work together to restore the profession. I do not think playing "he said" is going to get the job done. And burning down OUR house is not in anyone's best interest.
Best of luck to us all
Dawgs
A relative seniority list that looks great graphically on the day after the merger begs some questions: are the pilot demographics so perfectly matched that, as future attrition occurs, the list will continue to look great?
Therein lies the reason it seems the list negotiation wasn't successful. As a junior Delta pilot, I would like to see the NW side acknowledge all of the FUTURE Delta pilots retiring in greater numbers just after the NW exodus. If NW wants to receive credit, we should as well. The only way I see around it is some fluid system of awarding seniority credit when NW pilots retire vs DL pilots retiring to their original respective pilots. I think a list with relative seniority and this credit to its pilots would be fair. I think it would have to continue till the last pilot on either list retires that is on the list today. I think that would probably stretch out to almost 40 years. We have some pretty young new hires. I mean if we want to make it completely fair, right?? Having said that I think it would be divisive. You would be forever tied to the pre-merged group. And as the MEC statement above states, "as future attrition occurs, will the list continue to look great? Well it would depend on what side you were on and what year it is. I know DL has many more retiring over my career.
One other thing, the DL pilots have not sold anyone out. IMHO, I think our union has gone above and beyond to do the right thing in previous mergers (resulting in our own being furloughed) and how they treated others and me during furlough. Cobra benefits for years, emergency relief fund, etc. Of course, they haven't always made the best decisions, but LOA 19 is a good one IMO. We used what little leverage we had to raise the bar. It is a starting point for the joint contract. Nothing more. I would hope the majority at NW sees it this way. We need to work together to restore the profession. I do not think playing "he said" is going to get the job done. And burning down OUR house is not in anyone's best interest.
Best of luck to us all
Dawgs
Last edited by DAWGS; 05-06-2008 at 04:55 AM.
05-05-2008, 07:58 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Originally Posted by DAWGS
NWA MEC Communications:
A relative seniority list that looks great graphically on the day after the merger begs some questions: are the pilot demographics so perfectly matched that, as future attrition occurs, the list will continue to look great?
Therein lies the reason it seems the list negotiation wasn't successful. As a junior Delta pilot, I would like to see the NW side acknowledge all of the FUTURE Delta pilots retiring in greater numbers just after the NW exodus. If NW wants to receive credit, we should as well. The only way I see around it is some fluid system of awarding seniority credit when NW pilots retire vs DL pilots retiring to their original respective pilots. I think a list with relative seniority and this credit to its pilots would be fair. I think it would have to continue till the last pilot on either list retires that is on the list today. I think that would probably stretch out to almost 40 years. We have some pretty young new hires. I mean if we want to make it completely fair, right?? Having said that I think it would be divisive. You would be forever tied to the pre-merged group. And as the MEC statement above states, "as future attrition occurs, will the list continue to look great? Well it would depend on what side you were on and what year it is. I know DL has many more retiring over my career.
One other thing, the DL pilots have not sold anyone out. IMHO, I think our union has gone over and beyond to do the right thing in previous mergers (resulting in our own being furloughed) and how they treated others and me during furlough. Cobra benefits for years, emergency relief fund, etc. Of course, they haven't always made the best decisions, but LOA 19 is a good one IMO. We used what little leverage we had to raise the bar. It is a starting point for the joint contract. Nothing more. I would hope the majority at NW sees it this way. We need to work together to restore the profession. I do not think playing "he said" is going to get the job done. And burning down OUR house is not in anyone's best interest.
Best of luck to us all
Dawgs
A relative seniority list that looks great graphically on the day after the merger begs some questions: are the pilot demographics so perfectly matched that, as future attrition occurs, the list will continue to look great?
Therein lies the reason it seems the list negotiation wasn't successful. As a junior Delta pilot, I would like to see the NW side acknowledge all of the FUTURE Delta pilots retiring in greater numbers just after the NW exodus. If NW wants to receive credit, we should as well. The only way I see around it is some fluid system of awarding seniority credit when NW pilots retire vs DL pilots retiring to their original respective pilots. I think a list with relative seniority and this credit to its pilots would be fair. I think it would have to continue till the last pilot on either list retires that is on the list today. I think that would probably stretch out to almost 40 years. We have some pretty young new hires. I mean if we want to make it completely fair, right?? Having said that I think it would be divisive. You would be forever tied to the pre-merged group. And as the MEC statement above states, "as future attrition occurs, will the list continue to look great? Well it would depend on what side you were on and what year it is. I know DL has many more retiring over my career.
One other thing, the DL pilots have not sold anyone out. IMHO, I think our union has gone over and beyond to do the right thing in previous mergers (resulting in our own being furloughed) and how they treated others and me during furlough. Cobra benefits for years, emergency relief fund, etc. Of course, they haven't always made the best decisions, but LOA 19 is a good one IMO. We used what little leverage we had to raise the bar. It is a starting point for the joint contract. Nothing more. I would hope the majority at NW sees it this way. We need to work together to restore the profession. I do not think playing "he said" is going to get the job done. And burning down OUR house is not in anyone's best interest.
Best of luck to us all
Dawgs
05-05-2008, 08:34 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
Not trying to throw gas on the fire, but what the hell. It seems that a larger percentage of the negative posts coming from both sides seems to be by the more junior guys.
