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DAL & NWA Pilots To Take Contract to Management on May 29th

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DAL & NWA Pilots To Take Contract to Management on May 29th

Old 06-04-2008, 02:17 AM
  #121  
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I agree with the frustrations regarding the NWA reserve system. You have to bid for long call on a day by day basis, so you might get long call one day and then short call the next, then long call, etc, etc. This means you have to commute back to base in the middle of a reserve stretch since you got a short call day in there. I think we should do it like they do over at CAL. I believe they bid for the entire month either short call or long call. Long call at CAL (I think) has a reduced guarantee however. This is the price you pay for not having to sit in a crashpad in base waiting for a call, well worth it for 5 hours or so of pay IMO. Real time trip trading would be nice as well, and an upgrade to the software we use to make it more user friendly. On the upside, the commuter policy at NWA is great, we should definitely keep that.
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:09 AM
  #122  
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Does DAL pay for moving expenses? This is one thing that we have to keep in the contract, esp. for those wishing to move or change bases....
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Old 06-04-2008, 04:19 AM
  #123  
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First. We use the RAW score system. Seniority does not matter. It all goes on how little you fly. It is a complicated formula that basically gives you two points for every hour of credit. The lower your score the higher up on the list you are. We also have a "SILO" type deal that ranks pilots in order of days. The difference is that Domestically we have avail days with the max of four. So a guy with six days of availability can be below a guy with four days. Slightly different weight system, but in essence the same thing.
You can put in a yellow slip, but on reserve it really doesn't do much for you. They will fly you right up to 70 hrs. A buddy of mine was six minutes shy of breaking guarantee last month and they did not fly him for the last six days. He had a yellow slip in, reduced his RAW score and had every type of green slip in. Point is that unless you are their last option you will sit. More than likely on Short Call. They cannot use you, but they are not going to let you off the hook either.
This happened to me last week. Flew a five day with 32 hrs of credit and 26 hrs of block. On day six I was on short call.
We do not bid on short call. It is up to the schedules to decided who gets it and who does not. You can get up to eight periods in a month. I normally have four to six. Some months I get all eight.

On the moving deal. We get paid moving up to a certain weight. (Do not remember, but I think it is 20K lbs) You only get this if you are voluntary displaced or within six months of a new base opening. This changed with our pre bankruptcy concessions.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:54 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
Really? I just saw Bethune on CNBC and they ALWAYS mention when a guest has that kind of potential conflict of interest relationship - yet nobody mentioned that. What is your source for that assertion?



My CAL friends disagree with you completely. They all say Bethune WAS a genius. I'm sure he had other talented folks on his team, but he did a remarkable job after Lorenzo's disastrous tenure.



The word eventually insinuates the longer term. As I've said previously, you don't get to live in the long term if you die in the short term. That is the concern.



If we ever fly together, we'll avoid thunderstorms and stay out of danger not because we "stopped worrying", but because we realistically look at the threats that we face and use our experience to avoid them.

Carl
Carl-

I don't get on this board much, but your lack of basic knowledge that Bethune represents a hedge fund ( CNBC DIDN"T TELL YOU! HA) that has a vested interest in UAL and DAL shows how misinformed and ignorant you are about the the statements you make.

I worked at CAL, I read his book, From Worst to First, had dinner with him and still have many friends that work at CAL, yet somehow I am misinformed. You say I am misinformed because CNBC never mentioned his connection with Pardus, unbelievable!

You seem to want to listen to "analysts" and these genius CEO's who say DAL should not merge because____________! I have informed myself through my MEC, Roadshows and have listened to independent E&FA and believe the acquisition of NWA (YES I SAID ACQUISITION) is good for DAL.

UAL is culling its fleet and parking.....gasp..... 747's. The DC9's will be gone too, they have to go in this environment. It is being mentioned more regularly now by VP's in the pilots lounge during their visits.

Carl, you have been whining and B$*ching the whole time on this thread. You are a 747 captain and feel you are being slighted in your career. I certainly don't feel for you, no one wants to take a thing from you, no loss of seniority, no displacement from your seat, a pay raise, a stronger company with an envious international reach, and you are upset.

No Carl, Kellner (CAL) walked away from UAL beacuse UAL is not a good "fit" ,but so did DAL. Kelly at SWA is running a domestic carrier with not one international route. Yet somehow these oh so smart men are saying merging is a bad idea. There are no other options for them, this is the best combination plain and simple, not all mergers make good combinations.

The Asian Pacific route structure NWA services is not being fully realized. The combination between DAL and NWA will allow more revenue to be captured. DAL and Air France are the founding members of the Skyteam alliance. Air France is a good partner and has tacitly approved this merger and was/is willing to invest in this endeavor to see it succeed.

So who is right Carl? Your CNBC analysts, G. Buthune, Kelly and Kellner or the individuals ( DAL/NWA and Air France) who have been looking at the internal analysis?

I take it back about flying with you, you're a drag and will never see good in anything; all the while you sit at the pinnacle of your career flying your 747 looking down at everyone else.

As an aside, are you leaving at 60?
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:58 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post

Really? I just saw Bethune on CNBC and they ALWAYS mention when a guest has that kind of potential conflict of interest relationship - yet nobody mentioned that. What is your source for that assertion?


Oh, I don't know Carl, I just make stuff up. You really have very little credibility Carl.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/...berg/bxair.php

Did you say "ALWAYS".................
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:10 AM
  #126  
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Carl wrote:

I am increasingly of the belief that it is not the right move for both airlines. I've listened to Gary Kelly, Bob Crandall, Gordon Bethune and other airline analysts, and they all express their fear of spending 1 Billion dollars on combining two companies from the cash coffers that should probably be carefully guarded in this environment. It's a lot of money to spend on painting airplanes and moving headquarters' etc. Long term, it is probably a good thing. But you don't get to live in the long term if you die in the short term.

Some awfully smart people are saying they would not do it at this time, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of their logic.

Carl

"Combining the two is a "more civilized" approach than other options because there is "very little overlap" between routes and hubs, Bethune said. That would allow United and Delta to gain from expansion with less of an impact on their work forces, he said."

source:http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/...berg/bxair.php

Hey Carl, this was just a little over six months ago. Sounds a lot like the NWA/DAL deal. He sure is awfully smart!
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:18 AM
  #127  
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Well said, Hiflyer.
To build on your "full disclosure" point regarding Bethune, I'm beginning to suspect Carl is not legitimate.

Perhaps he is a plant from the NALPA fringe, trying to muddy the waters and stir up trouble in an effort to distract NWA pilots from the lack of foresight on the part of their MEC.

As most pilots from both groups have accepted this merger as inevitable and are trying to cooperate, Carl has grown increasingly negative and irrational.

In fact, I'm going so far as to label Carl a troll and add him to my ignore list.

Nice try Carl...

Last edited by Spaceman Spliff; 06-04-2008 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:36 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by INAV8OR View Post
Does DAL pay for moving expenses? This is one thing that we have to keep in the contract, esp. for those wishing to move or change bases....
DAL only pays your move if you are cancelled out of a base- i.e. a base closing or you are bumped out of base due to a Mandatory Displacement. You are NOT paid for a move if you bid that base or category voluntarily.

There is an exception for "new categories"- i.e. when we recently created the NYC 777 category, the first six months was a paid-move window.

So, your next question might be would the respective airline's domiciles be considered "new" for each other? Well, going by Pan Am and Western precedents, the answer is no.

Soup
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:51 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by NoSoupForYou View Post
DAL only pays your move if you are cancelled out of a base- i.e. a base closing or you are bumped out of base due to a Mandatory Displacement. You are NOT paid for a move if you bid that base or category voluntarily.

There is an exception for "new categories"- i.e. when we recently created the NYC 777 category, the first six months was a paid-move window.

So, your next question might be would the respective airline's domiciles be considered "new" for each other? Well, going by Pan Am and Western precedents, the answer is no.

Soup

Then we need to keep the NWA moving benefits especially with the possible aircraft redeployment's to other bases. NWA will pay your move for a number of different reasons in some cases you might get a seat lock though.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:02 AM
  #130  
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NWA ALPA moving policy is: Bid a vacancy that you are awarded, you live 300 + miles from new base and you can get a paid move if you move within 150 miles from base. All new hires based in ANC or HNL get paid move. Plus .22 cents per mile per car only 2 cars allowed, meals and hotels. Up to 20,000 lbs and 60 days in storage. I think the moving is covered for a year after your new position. I hope we keep that...
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