For Both NWA and DAL Guys
06-07-2008, 08:20 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by Flare Armed
I appreciate having access to ALPA attorneys, the Aero Medical department, alternative insurance products, etc... access to experienced, professional people that have been representing pilots and helping pilots for many years.
Can you imagine how much farther our dues would go without having to fund their wastefulness?
Prater and his goons would have us think there is no way we could secure those services without National's huge bureaucracy to provide them. I call bullsh!t.
06-07-2008, 08:36 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spliff
Is there any reason we would not be able to obtain the same (or comparable) services without paying Prater and his cronies a ridiculous sum every month just to be the middle man?
Can you imagine how much farther our dues would go without having to fund their wastefulness?
Can you imagine how much farther our dues would go without having to fund their wastefulness?
Lucky for us, we have USAir testing those waters right now. We'll see how it works out for them. Don't get your hopes up.
BTW, ALPA Legal and Aeromedical (just to name two) do cost a ridiculous sum every month, until you need them. If you need them, they're a bargain.
06-07-2008, 08:42 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
I'm not opposed to paying a lot for legal and aeromed. I think it's money very well spent.
I just don't buy the argument that every single competent aeromed doctor and aviation attorney in the country work exclusively for ALPA National. I don't buy that the middlemen (National) should get paid for being intermediaries for these services, and little else.
I'm not sure USAPA is a good example of how to successfully provide those services. My perception is that they did not have any arrangments in place prior to taking over, and then had to scramble big time.
I just don't buy the argument that every single competent aeromed doctor and aviation attorney in the country work exclusively for ALPA National. I don't buy that the middlemen (National) should get paid for being intermediaries for these services, and little else.
I'm not sure USAPA is a good example of how to successfully provide those services. My perception is that they did not have any arrangments in place prior to taking over, and then had to scramble big time.
Last edited by Spaceman Spliff; 06-07-2008 at 08:49 AM.
06-07-2008, 08:46 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Spliff,
Name one bureaucracy that doesn't have wastefulness. It's the nature of the beast. Plain and simple there are a LOT more non-trip loss, VOLUNTEERING members of this union than there are not. Every bureaucracy needs a degree of infrastructure. Are you willing to use your house as a National HQ? Do you and your family want to do administrative and secretarial duties for free? Do you know a law firm versed in aviation law that is willing to do pro bono work? Do you know doctors that are experts in aviation medicine willing to do pro bono work? Do you really want to give up flying and have a desk job 5 days a week for years at a time?? Having only been in this industry a short while (8+ yrs) and using the vast resources of our union, I sleep soundly at night while paying my 2.0% dues.
Name one bureaucracy that doesn't have wastefulness. It's the nature of the beast. Plain and simple there are a LOT more non-trip loss, VOLUNTEERING members of this union than there are not. Every bureaucracy needs a degree of infrastructure. Are you willing to use your house as a National HQ? Do you and your family want to do administrative and secretarial duties for free? Do you know a law firm versed in aviation law that is willing to do pro bono work? Do you know doctors that are experts in aviation medicine willing to do pro bono work? Do you really want to give up flying and have a desk job 5 days a week for years at a time?? Having only been in this industry a short while (8+ yrs) and using the vast resources of our union, I sleep soundly at night while paying my 2.0% dues.
06-07-2008, 09:02 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
I understand there are a huge number of volunteers, especially at the MEC/LEC level. I appreciate their hard work, and I trust them a hell of a lot more than the slick operators at National.
My skepticism is directed at ALPA National. I fail to see how the money going in there equates to anything of value coming out. I don't know why I'm paying guys that are not looking out for my peers and I.
There doesn't seem to be any motivation from National to improve their efficiency or become more streamlined. We have taken pay cuts; they have not. We expect our views to be represented; they are not.
Three words: Bloated, arrogant, complacent.
My skepticism is directed at ALPA National. I fail to see how the money going in there equates to anything of value coming out. I don't know why I'm paying guys that are not looking out for my peers and I.
There doesn't seem to be any motivation from National to improve their efficiency or become more streamlined. We have taken pay cuts; they have not. We expect our views to be represented; they are not.
Three words: Bloated, arrogant, complacent.
06-07-2008, 10:16 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
I see value in my LEC. I see value in my MEC. I see value in Aeromedical, Jumpseat, Legal, Government Affairs, Safety, Retirement. I see value in a phone number on a orange card that I hope and pray to God that I will never have to use. Dont' confuse the postions/postures of union leaders with ALPA. Spliff you ARE ALPA, I AM ALPA and Carl, yes even Carl is ALPA. Does your current president or any of the candidates best represent you?? Hell definately not me, doesn't mean I don't wann be an American anymore....
06-07-2008, 05:08 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 7ER B
Posts: 145
Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin
I see value in my LEC. I see value in my MEC. I see value in Aeromedical, Jumpseat, Legal, Government Affairs, Safety, Retirement. I see value in a phone number on a orange card that I hope and pray to God that I will never have to use. Dont' confuse the postions/postures of union leaders with ALPA. Spliff you ARE ALPA, I AM ALPA and Carl, yes even Carl is ALPA. Does your current president or any of the candidates best represent you?? Hell definately not me, doesn't mean I don't wann be an American anymore....
Slinky
06-08-2008, 08:10 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
Once again: I agree that our MEC and LEC offices do great work.
I'm trying to figure out why we need the National bureaucracy. They don't represent our wishes, the membership is comprised of way too many divergent interests to have any credibility...and they waste a TON of money.
I don't understand why our MECs can't contract for the services we like, pay the PAC if we need some influence in DC, and ditch the bloated buffoons at National who are nothing more than figureheads. very well compensated figureheads.
I'm trying to figure out why we need the National bureaucracy. They don't represent our wishes, the membership is comprised of way too many divergent interests to have any credibility...and they waste a TON of money.
I don't understand why our MECs can't contract for the services we like, pay the PAC if we need some influence in DC, and ditch the bloated buffoons at National who are nothing more than figureheads. very well compensated figureheads.
06-08-2008, 08:38 AM
#19
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Because simply put, deep pockets are needed and the only way to achieve this is with the national union.
Also our aeromedical, LOL, etc would not carry as much weight if it localized.
Trust me. There is strength in numbers. We just have not gotten to the point of doing contracts on a national level.
Also our aeromedical, LOL, etc would not carry as much weight if it localized.
Trust me. There is strength in numbers. We just have not gotten to the point of doing contracts on a national level.
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