Awappa update.
05-09-2008, 11:58 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Awappa update.
For those that don't know, Awappa is the non profit protecting the america west pilots from the east scabs. Apparently the lying continues back east with the new union, they have failed to tell their membership that no further negotiations would take place (they planned on striking a deal exchanging the stapling of the west pilots for a concessionary contract) they insist that any new mergers will go doh placing their 18 year furloughed pilots on top of ual and awa senior captains. Also for those that don't know former AWA pilots are totally unprotected with no rep's or committees staffed out west, we have all lost our insurance coverage and our grievances have been dropped by the new scab union imposed on us, don't forget that when you give these guys a jumpseat ride. A AWA pilot can be identified by the PXXXX number on the back of his ID and by the red "cactus" sticker on the badge backer
"1. AAA MEC Lawsuit Dismissed
AWAPPA has been informed that the attorneys representing both the AAA and AWA MECs have filed a joint stipulation dismissing the case in DC Superior Court, as the parties (namely the AAA and AWA MECs) to the proceeding no longer exist. Thus ends one challenge to the Nicolau Award.
2. Parker Informs Labor - No Joint Negotiations Until After Any Merger
AWAPPA volunteers have learned that at last week's quarterly labor meeting with US Airways senior management, Doug Parker did NOT acknowledge any direct discussions regarding any party to a merger, but instead told the labor representatives there (including USAPA) that if a merger took place, there would be no joint labor negotiations until after a merger transaction is closed for financial purposes. This is not unexpected as this was management's stance in our AWA/AAA negotiations (with the exception of the completion of our Transition Agreement). In this case, it is even possible that no transition agreement negotiations would be completed as the UAL and LCC pilots are represented by different unions.
We continue to carefully observe both management's actions, and USAPA's actions very closely as we have informed both parties that they will be named as defendants in a law suit if they agree to modify the Nicolau Award.
3. Watch Your Back
AWAPPA has received several reports of USAPA members attempting to create a hostile work environment for former AWA pilots by engaging them in debate designed to entrap them and then filing reports against them with management. In their reports to management, the USAPA members have deliberately added "spin" to their version of the confrontation to appear that they are the victim.
Frankly, this vile act is inexcusable and the culture that has created this environment should be immediately stomped out by senior management. We hope that senior management is going to adopt a zero tolerance approach to this "baiting" activity by some USAPA members who file these frivolous reports.
AWA pilots need to be especially careful not to be entrapped by these activities and avoid any and all confrontations with East pilots. AWAPPA recommends that if you are confronted, you should immediate remove yourself from the situation and find witnesses to bear evidence to any events that may have transpired. Document everything. And please be careful out there.
4. USAPA Claims All Expenses Germane
In a recent report, USAPA has claimed that all expenses their expenses are "germane" to the representational activities. As a reminder, those who pay agency shop fees in lieu of union dues are entitled to a refund of all fees that were not used for "germane" representational expenses. We guess that this recent announcement means that USAPA plans to go ahead and collect dues from pilots even though they have not delivered any contractual products yet. Additionally, USAPA has yet to clarify whether they are charging 1.95% or 2.95% dues, even though they have worked out a non-member dues check-off arrangement.
Thanks USAPA, but on behalf of the dissenters, we will wait until you mail us the bill.
5. Follow the FOM
The new US Airways FOM is designed to be permissive in nature as a result of liability experience from US Air's six major accidents. Our former Safety Committee folks highly recommend all pilots carefully follow the rules. With a new and untested union, and now that we are outside ALPA's accident and safety umbrella, it is up to every pilot to protect themselves. Fly by the book. If in doubt, file an ASAP and NASA report immediately.
6. McCaskill or ALPA Merger Policy - You Decide.
USAPA put out a recent update that asserted that as a result of the McCaskill Bill, Allegheny-Mohawk procedures would be used if we merged with UAL. The McCaskill Bill was enacted at the end of 2007 as a stop gap to protect labor from mergers like AMR/TWA where one employee group did not get access to a "fair and equitable" standard in an arbitration to integrate seniority. Importantly, the provisions of the Bill do not apply if the employees are represented by the same labor organization. Specifically, the law says: "if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section..."
Consider the following: Let's say LCC and UAL merge, the transaction closes this fall sometime, and subsequent to the closing there is an NMB single carrier determination and an election between the pilot groups. We are confident that ALPA would be reinstalled as the union for all UAL/LCC pilots after a relatively quick election (since no cards would have to be filed). Because the new law says that Allegheny/Mohawk arbitration only takes place if the employees are represented by different labor organizations, it is AWAPPA's view that ALPA's Merger Policy would be used because both LCC and UAL pilots would be in ALPA well before the merged seniority talks take place. (Remember how long it took our case to get through all the steps?) Here is the law's text for your review:
SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION.
(a) LABOR INTEGRATION- With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that-
(1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section; and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions.
(b) DEFINITIONS- In this section, the following definitions apply:
(1) AIR CARRIER- The term `air carrier' means an air carrier that holds a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.
(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER- The term `covered air carrier' means an air carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.
(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE- The term `covered employee' means an employee who--
(A) is not a temporary employee; and
(B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).
(4) COVERED TRANSACTION- The term `covered transaction' means--
(A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and which
(B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of--
(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or
(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.
(c) APPLICATION- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.
(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION- This section shall become effective on the date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years after fiscal year 2008.
But even if we are wrong about that scenario, since ALPA Merger Policy works similarly to the way that Allegheny-Mohawk works (i.e. a fair and equitable integration resulting from binding arbitration), the same substantive standards would apply. While some continue to argue that Allegheny-Mohawk means date of hire, nothing could be further from the truth as has been previously pointed out in a letter by Jeff Freund which explained that integration under Allegheny-Mohawk has infrequently resulted in a DOH integration of pilot seniority lists [note that the letter was written prior to the existence of the McCaskill Bill]. In any event, one thing is clear - if ALPA becomes the bargaining agent for both UAL and LCC pilots, it is unlikely that any assertion from the soon-to-be-former USAPA demanding that they are a party to this integration would prevail, since they will have no statutory right to represent any pilots.
7. Insurance Solutions
For those of you who received cancellation notices from ALPA for your insurance, please note that Harvey Watt is offering insurance to all AWA pilots who are not members of USAPA on the same terms and conditions as will be offered to USAPA members. AWAPPA has no relationship with Harvey Watt or the insurance products that they are offering to AWA pilots.
The link to apply is:
http://www.harveywatt.com/awapilots
All US Airways pilots who are not USAPA members are eligible to apply under this link. Also, Harvey Watt is also offering Aeromedical Coverage to USAPA non-members for $50.00 per year.
7. UAL Merger - Conflict of Interest?
AWAPPA continues to monitor the UAL merger situation. A handful of AWA pilots have expressed some concern that our attorney, Mr. Jeff Freund, also represents the UAL Merger Committee and therefore has a "conflict of interest." We are confident that no such conflict exists. To be clear, Mr. Freund represents AWAPPA for one fundamental primary purpose - to preserve and protect the Nicolau Award, whether US Airways merges with another carrier or stands alone. He does not represent AWAPPA for the purpose of integrating a US Airways seniority list with a seniority list from any other airline. Should the AWA pilot's "legal interests" change as the result of a merger or other transaction, we review our requirements for counsel if necessary."
"1. AAA MEC Lawsuit Dismissed
AWAPPA has been informed that the attorneys representing both the AAA and AWA MECs have filed a joint stipulation dismissing the case in DC Superior Court, as the parties (namely the AAA and AWA MECs) to the proceeding no longer exist. Thus ends one challenge to the Nicolau Award.
2. Parker Informs Labor - No Joint Negotiations Until After Any Merger
AWAPPA volunteers have learned that at last week's quarterly labor meeting with US Airways senior management, Doug Parker did NOT acknowledge any direct discussions regarding any party to a merger, but instead told the labor representatives there (including USAPA) that if a merger took place, there would be no joint labor negotiations until after a merger transaction is closed for financial purposes. This is not unexpected as this was management's stance in our AWA/AAA negotiations (with the exception of the completion of our Transition Agreement). In this case, it is even possible that no transition agreement negotiations would be completed as the UAL and LCC pilots are represented by different unions.
We continue to carefully observe both management's actions, and USAPA's actions very closely as we have informed both parties that they will be named as defendants in a law suit if they agree to modify the Nicolau Award.
3. Watch Your Back
AWAPPA has received several reports of USAPA members attempting to create a hostile work environment for former AWA pilots by engaging them in debate designed to entrap them and then filing reports against them with management. In their reports to management, the USAPA members have deliberately added "spin" to their version of the confrontation to appear that they are the victim.
Frankly, this vile act is inexcusable and the culture that has created this environment should be immediately stomped out by senior management. We hope that senior management is going to adopt a zero tolerance approach to this "baiting" activity by some USAPA members who file these frivolous reports.
AWA pilots need to be especially careful not to be entrapped by these activities and avoid any and all confrontations with East pilots. AWAPPA recommends that if you are confronted, you should immediate remove yourself from the situation and find witnesses to bear evidence to any events that may have transpired. Document everything. And please be careful out there.
4. USAPA Claims All Expenses Germane
In a recent report, USAPA has claimed that all expenses their expenses are "germane" to the representational activities. As a reminder, those who pay agency shop fees in lieu of union dues are entitled to a refund of all fees that were not used for "germane" representational expenses. We guess that this recent announcement means that USAPA plans to go ahead and collect dues from pilots even though they have not delivered any contractual products yet. Additionally, USAPA has yet to clarify whether they are charging 1.95% or 2.95% dues, even though they have worked out a non-member dues check-off arrangement.
Thanks USAPA, but on behalf of the dissenters, we will wait until you mail us the bill.
5. Follow the FOM
The new US Airways FOM is designed to be permissive in nature as a result of liability experience from US Air's six major accidents. Our former Safety Committee folks highly recommend all pilots carefully follow the rules. With a new and untested union, and now that we are outside ALPA's accident and safety umbrella, it is up to every pilot to protect themselves. Fly by the book. If in doubt, file an ASAP and NASA report immediately.
6. McCaskill or ALPA Merger Policy - You Decide.
USAPA put out a recent update that asserted that as a result of the McCaskill Bill, Allegheny-Mohawk procedures would be used if we merged with UAL. The McCaskill Bill was enacted at the end of 2007 as a stop gap to protect labor from mergers like AMR/TWA where one employee group did not get access to a "fair and equitable" standard in an arbitration to integrate seniority. Importantly, the provisions of the Bill do not apply if the employees are represented by the same labor organization. Specifically, the law says: "if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section..."
Consider the following: Let's say LCC and UAL merge, the transaction closes this fall sometime, and subsequent to the closing there is an NMB single carrier determination and an election between the pilot groups. We are confident that ALPA would be reinstalled as the union for all UAL/LCC pilots after a relatively quick election (since no cards would have to be filed). Because the new law says that Allegheny/Mohawk arbitration only takes place if the employees are represented by different labor organizations, it is AWAPPA's view that ALPA's Merger Policy would be used because both LCC and UAL pilots would be in ALPA well before the merged seniority talks take place. (Remember how long it took our case to get through all the steps?) Here is the law's text for your review:
SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION.
(a) LABOR INTEGRATION- With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that-
(1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section; and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions.
(b) DEFINITIONS- In this section, the following definitions apply:
(1) AIR CARRIER- The term `air carrier' means an air carrier that holds a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.
(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER- The term `covered air carrier' means an air carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.
(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE- The term `covered employee' means an employee who--
(A) is not a temporary employee; and
(B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).
(4) COVERED TRANSACTION- The term `covered transaction' means--
(A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and which
(B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of--
(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or
(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.
(c) APPLICATION- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.
(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION- This section shall become effective on the date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years after fiscal year 2008.
But even if we are wrong about that scenario, since ALPA Merger Policy works similarly to the way that Allegheny-Mohawk works (i.e. a fair and equitable integration resulting from binding arbitration), the same substantive standards would apply. While some continue to argue that Allegheny-Mohawk means date of hire, nothing could be further from the truth as has been previously pointed out in a letter by Jeff Freund which explained that integration under Allegheny-Mohawk has infrequently resulted in a DOH integration of pilot seniority lists [note that the letter was written prior to the existence of the McCaskill Bill]. In any event, one thing is clear - if ALPA becomes the bargaining agent for both UAL and LCC pilots, it is unlikely that any assertion from the soon-to-be-former USAPA demanding that they are a party to this integration would prevail, since they will have no statutory right to represent any pilots.
7. Insurance Solutions
For those of you who received cancellation notices from ALPA for your insurance, please note that Harvey Watt is offering insurance to all AWA pilots who are not members of USAPA on the same terms and conditions as will be offered to USAPA members. AWAPPA has no relationship with Harvey Watt or the insurance products that they are offering to AWA pilots.
The link to apply is:
http://www.harveywatt.com/awapilots
All US Airways pilots who are not USAPA members are eligible to apply under this link. Also, Harvey Watt is also offering Aeromedical Coverage to USAPA non-members for $50.00 per year.
7. UAL Merger - Conflict of Interest?
AWAPPA continues to monitor the UAL merger situation. A handful of AWA pilots have expressed some concern that our attorney, Mr. Jeff Freund, also represents the UAL Merger Committee and therefore has a "conflict of interest." We are confident that no such conflict exists. To be clear, Mr. Freund represents AWAPPA for one fundamental primary purpose - to preserve and protect the Nicolau Award, whether US Airways merges with another carrier or stands alone. He does not represent AWAPPA for the purpose of integrating a US Airways seniority list with a seniority list from any other airline. Should the AWA pilot's "legal interests" change as the result of a merger or other transaction, we review our requirements for counsel if necessary."
05-15-2008, 07:21 PM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: B-737 Capt.
Posts: 86
Almost 99% false statements. AWA pilots have all the insurance available that they had with ALPA. ASPA is in place. USAPA is the only union for pilots in place at US Airways. USAPA is in current negotiations with the company. Where does this Parker quote come from??? The west folks should simply learn the facts, and not listen to the misguided McIlvenna. Please read the 1st Q report on the HUB with Doug and learn something. Denial of JS is an immature reaction, with nothing postive to be obtained. Is this what west calls mature and professional behaviour? ALPA Merger Policy was raped by Prater, and ALPA knows it. "No windfall to either group" is but one of ALPA policies that was not heeded. A AWA 2005 new hire was put ahead of a US pilot with 18 years who was never furloughed from US Air!? this is fair, according to the AWA folks. the MDA pilots won a lawsuit against ALPA, which speaks volumes. But AWA guys are unwilling to discuss, or speak like mature professionals. The only scabs are with ALPA, former CAL. We'll just let the lawyers duke it out. good luck fellas. You need it with a misguided bloke like Capt Mac.
05-15-2008, 08:34 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Waiting for class to start...
Posts: 379
Well said flyharm. I think cactiboss is obviously turning bitterness into blame. I talk to friends from both sides, it seems that most of the conflicts come from guys like cactiboss.
05-16-2008, 06:05 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Good luck to those of you at the former AWA. I was just at an ALPA conference, where I had a chance to speak to some USAir (west) guys about ALPA insurance and Aeromedical Services vs. the product you're being offered now. I hope you all remain healthy until you're back at ALPA.
05-27-2008, 10:01 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: B-737 Capt.
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by CVG767A
Good luck to those of you at the former AWA. I was just at an ALPA conference, where I had a chance to speak to some USAir (west) guys about ALPA insurance and Aeromedical Services vs. the product you're being offered now. I hope you all remain healthy until you're back at ALPA.
05-27-2008, 11:18 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by flyharm
Please recall the AWA led a drive to leave ALPA 4 or 5 years ago, but just like today, they were not organized.
I would think the circumstances today are somewhat different than they were "4 or 5 years ago," wouldn't you?
05-29-2008, 01:49 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Originally Posted by flyharm
...why don't you ask Prater why he forced Hudson to deny service to USAPA?
The fact remains, though, that the ALPA's Aeromedical service is the best one out there.
No ALPA blinders here; there's plenty I don't like about ALPA. You guys, however, are shooting yourselves in the foot in your attempt to overturn binding arbitration.
06-10-2008, 10:33 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by Godzilla
Cacti:
A scab is someone who crosses an organized unions line during a strike.
To say otherwise is poor grammer and a clear display of ignorance.
Please lets act like educated professional pilots.
A scab is someone who crosses an organized unions line during a strike.
To say otherwise is poor grammer and a clear display of ignorance.
Please lets act like educated professional pilots.
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