Flare Armed

You nay sayers can say what you want but I'm impressed that we were able to negotiate more improvements in this current economic environment. The GS pay is a huge coup in my opinion and I'm VERY happy to see immediate parity from day 1 for the NWA folks.

I have a bunch of friends getting laid off from UAL and CAL right now, so I really consider myself lucky.

So far we are the only legacy that has gotten any raises post 9/11 and BK....no matter what you think of Moak, you have to give him that. We've done allright given the circumstances.

Spaceman Spliff

Anyone heard if hats will be optional?

Superpilot92

Normally i would agree to always saying NO on the first "offer" but in this environment in all honestly we are lucky we are getting any +'s. Look at the rest of the industry, we dont really have time or the ability to get much more out of this. $140 bucks a barrel for oil will cripple the majority of the industry. This may be a time to take what our teams have negotiated for us and plan on going bigger on the next round. JMHO

I agree both sides are lucky to be in this position all things considered. I am glad both sides were able to work together to get us this increases. Lets hope we can continue to buck the trend the industry has going right now.

NoSoupForYou

Flare-

I was happy to see the restoration of GS pay as well, but I've had a little time to think about it and I hope my fears are not borne out. Here's the deal- I'm senior enough in my category to get a GS any day I want (and there are dozens), but like most regular lineholders, it hasn't been worth my time or trouble since LOA 46.

And the company knows this- the vast majority of trip coverage this summer has been IA and GS to junior reserves doing "rolling thunder", which exhausts the available reserves very quickly and leaves the company with nobody to cover open flying.

Sooooo, suddenly the company is concerned enough to approach DALPA about "how do we get guys interested in flying overtime"? (Yes- the company expressed this concern first- not us.)

So follow the money...what's really going on? I fear it may be this- the company knows- or strongly suspects- that furloughs will follow the "rationalization" of the two fleets. They know they can't get lineholders to fly overtime now, so it's going to be a real hard sell with pilots on the street.

Sooooo, suddenly they're willing to sweeten the pay, reduce the trigger, AND count vacation and CQ toward the trigger. Just as the rest of the industry is furloughing en masse...

Well of course I hope I am wrong.

And duly noted is the fact that the vast majority of the greenslipping today is among our junior reserves. Those who are most vulnerable to furlough seem unconcerned with convincing the company that a furlough is NOT in its best interest...and will be the first to scream if anyone greenslips once they can't...

But who am I to say...like I said I hope we can dodge the furlough bullet altogether.

Soup

StripAlert

Maybe they're just doing what they can to build the war chest for the inevitable. It's not easy at $50/hr. And I would argue that they're not really helping the company, for reasons already discussed. They're flying the same 80 hours they would be on straight reserve, timing out, and getting paid for 150. Nothing says, "Don't furlough" quite like "You're already paying double for this flying." At the same time, they're exhausting the reserves so all you "senior lineholders" can G/S for the second half of the month.

Furthermore, flying overtime while guys are on the street would non only be un-cool, it would delay the return of folks junior to everyone who will bump up the relative seniority of the entire group. And justifying it because those same guys are taking advantage of the shortage now--when they make less than half of your hourly rate--while everyone has an equal opportunity to G/S is just ignorant. If you want to do it, you're senior to them, so bid reserve and G/S away.

I had the unique privilege, at my previous company, of being in the F/E seat when the captain (Delta early retiree, and a great guy) began boasting about greenslipping after the 9/11 furloughs, to the tune of over half a million dollars in one year. Good for him, but his SA radar was in STBY. The F/O had been one of those furloughees. Funniness ensued. (Karma's a cruel mistress, though. The captain is still working the angles on post-60 ex-pat flying to pay for the big house, boat, car, airplane, and ex-wife collection, while the F/O is still flying the 747, but now for UPS.)

bigdaddie

I kinda thought that was the case from your first response.

bigdaddie

Guys don't get me wrong, I am totally happy just to have a job in this envionment. The fact of the matter is airlines are getting smaller to increase pricing power and fares so as to recover fuel costs. Fuel costs are now so much more than employee costs that thank goodness we are off the radar for now.

This could be an opportunity for us. We could use to our advantage the prospective increase in pricing power to recover some of our lost income and benifits. I'll tell you one thing, extending our contract 3 years with a 2% increase in DC over the next three and one half years is not IMHO not a great deal.

But opinions and instructions are the same: just another man's point of view.

slowplay

Congratulations on your courageous votes....makes you a first class keyboard warrior, Steve!

Between LOA 19 and the JCBA, as a Delta guy you get more than a 20% increase in compensation. The NWA guy gets more than 30%. Show me a list of airlines that have made that magnitude of contract improvements in this environment, you know, the one where the airline you work for hasn't made a dime in total since it exited bankruptcy. The one where every other major network carrier has announced furloughs. The industry you work in that has had multiple airlines liquidate in the last few months.

crickets, crickets...

Where were your "balls" when the strike center opened in LAX during 1113? I didn't see you there. Maybe your alchemy can make more gold out of our present situation, but that will require you to actually use your balls and do some work, not take your balls and stay home.

I'll take what Moak is doing instead of what you're smoking and drinking, thanks. And I'll take what DALPA has done compared to any other group in ALPA.

StripAlert

Was there a G/S trigger in C2K? If I take any MLOA at all, flying significantly over 82 (or even 75) hours is pretty hard. Seems like the company would want to encourage me to G/S as well. Wonder if we can get phantom credit for MLOA toward the trigger too, like with the PBS LCW? Otherwise, it's more worth my time to drill even more, or out of base W/S, since post-merger it's going to be forever before I can get to ATL with any QOL...

DeadHead

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't these new contract changes come into effect on the day of corporate closure. I thought the time-line for this deal was to close in December, thus going into 2009 as a newly merged company and a new Pilot Working Agreement.
Pending we can all work out the SLI.

If your talking about LOA 19, I can kind of see the company's point of view on this one. If the Justice Department drops an ax on this deal and the company has already put into effect the new pay raises and work rules, they might need to rescind those changes. I think that situation would be bad for everyone, and make a difficult situation for the company harder.