Nope. The exact wording is:

Here's a wild prediction:

This TA is going to be approved by wide margins at Northwest. Slam dunk.

At Delta its not so easy. There are many reasons for opposition and there is going to be an intense debate. The tendency will be toward approval and the Delta pilots have a long history of following their MEC's recommendations. I don't think "significant improvements over Letter 19" are realistic. But I think you might see an organized effort to send this thing back and ask for one small change --

The amendable date.

This deal is probably the best we can get right now but 4 years is a long time to continue working under what is essentially still a bankruptcy contract. Its all going to come down to a debate over what we think the future holds for our company and our industry.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll roger up anyway. I don't think there's enough money on the table right now to buy the Delta pilots' yes votes outright without an actual seniority list attached. However, it's a bit insulting that they didn't even tack on a measly 1% to what was already in LOA 19 in an effort to try.

So to answer your question, we need to see the actual list, and if NWA wants all the credit for "their" retirements, there had better be language in there holding each individual company's pilots responsible for covering their own fleet reductions until some future date. I'd also like to see Delta's pilots get credit for their retirement boom 7 years from now, which is bigger than NWA's current one.

Alternately, let's just forget all the complexities and merge it even-steven. Ratio with no sliding scale. We all share in the rewards. We all assume the risk. Over, done, let's move on together. That would go a long way to making this palatable, even if it results in short-term furloughs for Delta guys due to parking NWA airplanes.

I agree with all that. (See my post just above.)

What about better profit-sharing instead of the amendable date? If the downward spiral continues, it's a no-cost item for the company. If things turn around and "New Global Airline" kicks butt, we all get some extra scratch until the next contract. Seems simple enough.

Since you brought it up, recall that when Delta bought PanAm, the seniority lists were merged fairly, Delta parked a bunch of PanAm's 727's that they knew they were going to have to park before the deal was consummated, and Delta pilots ended up on the street. Let's avoid that this time.

I agree that we need to be looking past the us vs. management mentality that hasn't achieved any pay increases at any other legacy carrier since 9/11, and I commend Moak's MEC for achieving it. But let's also remember that we are in the only industry where folks spend tens of thousands of their own money and/or years serving their country to be qualified to work for peanuts as a new-hire, with only the promise of future earnings ahead. Meanwhile, if your airline fails or you want to move to another one, you start at the bottom all over again. That also doesn't happen in corporate America, where folks are paid commensurate with experience and ability, except in the big corner offices, apparently, where executives can lose half-a-billion dollars in a quarter :eek: and turn around and reward themselves with $120 million in bonuses and somehow get shareholders to buy off on it! Amazing!

I've got to agree with the NWA guys on this one. Seniority is key, unless you're planning on leaving.

Typical. Bag on the new guys for wanting to protect themselves from said furloughs, or did you even read my post? If you think there's any new furlough protection for anyone at either airline in LOA 19 or this TA, open your eyes.

This from the people who brought you LOA's 46 and 51...

Better question is, "How many will they be doing for NGA when the management group who is currently trying to fire them from Delta is running the entire show?"

It has been said by BOTH sides that the SLI WILL be done separately from the TA. BOTH sides know that doing it first would/could delay a joint TA thus putting any gains further out of reach with oil where it is and heading. DALPA and NALPA are working together on OUR behalves and thus far have done a good job. Look at Usair to the possible effects of doing the SLI first. Its in agreement by BOTH sides thats not the way to move forward and that decision has been made and rightfully so. Talking about doing the SLI first is pointless now because its not going to happen. WHY was LOA 19 good enough for some of you DAL guys when the NWA side was left out yet its not ok with the NWA guys included? Something is very wrong with that thought process.:cool:

Why does it seem that some of you hard core DALPA fans have suddenly lost faith in your MEC to do the best they CAN on your behalf now? Our MECs have much more info and Facts over this whole thing then we do, lets let them do their jobs and give this process time. None of us have had the opportunity to go to the roadshows to learn ALL the details so to make judgments on what you would VOTE already is pretty short sighted. I cant vote on it either way but for those that can get informed before you make judgments or jump to conclusions.:cool:

They'll still be separate. There is no memrat on SLI. However, the plan in February was to vote on the whole package, and it's still a good plan. Even if all the gains in this TA go away, the lion's share are protected by LOA 19, and functionally so for you guys as well in the eventual JPWA.

I ask again, what's in this for the DAL group that we don't already have except mystery SLI before the NWA drawdown?

A stable Very large airline that will dominate the industry. LOA 19 was only available BECAUSE of the merger and the money NWA brings in. You keep talking about doing the SLI first but again BOTH MECS AGREED THAT ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN. So why keep talking about it. Keeping the NWA guys on separate pay scales after the merger WILL be very BAD for the new company and i believe you know that or should know what the effects of that will do to our efficiencies. By the way the Efficiencies of the Merger are whats going to give us all the best shot and coming through this ahead of the ball game. We NEED unity We NEED a JPWA we NEED a single seniority list and we NEED it ASAP.

Send it back and you will get nothing. I have heard for years about how you should "Vote No" and then management will magically produce more money. Haven't seen that work yet. In fact, during the bankruptcy era, every union that voted no got a worse deal.

You need to think strategically. It is important in this environment that Delta finish the integration and then capitalize on this new network. They have already dug in deep to give major improvements to our contract through LOA 19 and the JPWA. Most analysts can't believe that we are getting a penny of pay raise with fuel above $125. If the integration is impeded, then there will be less money at Delta and less money for profit sharing and less money for any future contract improvements.

Finally, if you are young, you may have 8 or 9 contracts ahead of you. Do you want to negotiate those contracts with a group of Northwest pilots that are unified and happy to be working with you, or do you want to negotiate with a group of pilots that you tried to take advantage of because of their current fleet contraction and their current contract? Please tell me if you see any path forward for the LCC pilots other than some fragmentation, liquidation, or another merger. They have no other way to survive right now. Delta and Northwest are not immune from that type of future.

The Delta leadership saw this early on and created this framework to bring everyone together. Initially, the Northwest MEC was skeptical and called us a bunch of Amway salesman because we were preaching unity. Northwest has this Red Book/Green Book history of trying to leap ahead of each other through seniority issues. They came to the table ready for a fight, ready for arbitration, ready to deceive and confuse. They even couldn't speak honestly with their own pilots.

I think they are starting to get it. There has to be a different way. If their leadership can overcome their history of fighting, then the pilots have to follow along. Just because Delta seems to be in the catbird seat now, don't count on that never changing in the future. If Delta pilots give in to the dark side and try to take advantage of Northwest because of our current situation, it will be a strategic blunder of massive proportions.

Northwest pilots need Delta pilots and Delta pilots need Northwest pilots. Our company needs us to move forward together so they can attack the rest of the competition. Delta is now separating from the rest of the pack. The Northwest acquisition will give us another big boost forward. This is why you are getting contract improvements when the rest of the industry is eating it large.

Each side needs to throw away their parochial issues. Delta needs to quit whining about DC-9's going away. Northwest needs to quit whining about retirement attrition. We need to glue together our lists in an equal fashion, and then let our company go out and make more money. Then we need to go back to management and say "Give me more". We have had a steady series of improvements from the bankruptcy era and we will continue to improve as long as we deliver. There is no free lunch. If we can't deliver our promise to get the two pilot groups moving together, then we will hear "A contract is a contract" again. We have to deliver.

You have a long time ahead of you, think long term.