sailingfun

When Delta terminated the pension it was turned over to the PBGC. There were no bonds issued. The PBGC got a cash claim and a equity stake in Delta. The ongoing costs to Delta for the pilot pension plan since the exit are zero. The only retirement costs the company pays are now the DC plan. Once the merger is completed Delta will have to continue the DC payments and fund the NWA A plan which has a current shortfall of about 1.8 billion. With returns on fund investments in the 7 percent range the required funding per year is estimated at 20 to 30 million. If the fund does not do well on the investment side then the required funding could be substantially higher.

Carl Spackler

Hard to say Eric. My DB pension can vanish if there is another bankruptcy. The DC plan is in your name and can't be touched. My DC plan has no money in it because 100% is being transferred to the bottom half of our seniority list at NWA. If they managed their money right, they could probably come very close at the end of a career. The big thing would be that it's their money, not some BS promise of a DB plan.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Very good. And of course you'll feel the same way when you have about 5 years left to retirement and some bottom of the list guy says: "we should just dump these senior pukes DC plan, distribute "their" money evenly to the rest of us, stop funding it, then use that money to get better pay and work rules for the rest of us." You'll be totally consistent and say: "sure guys, sounds great to me. I never planned to have any retirement money anyway."

Your sense of entitlement, greed and thoughtlessness is matched only by your lack of any gratitude.

Carl

Skyone

Carl my man, you are right on the money on this (pun intended). I left DAL at 52 and 25 years. I got a fair lump sum, but am underwater with the PBGC and get bumpus from them. Therefore I get zero from my DB annuity. So after the termination of our pension I received 50% of my promised pension (60% FAE). In essence a 30% retirement. My point? Anything in one's own name is better than anything in a DB plan these days, just ask us retired DAL guys, the United guys, and the USAir guys.

Carl Spackler

Exactly right. That's why the top half of the list at NWA is a little sensitive. We are funding a DC plan for the bottom half of the NWA list only, and the top half is left only with a DB plan. But that's life...stuff happens. The sensitivity comes when these same bottom half folks chide us for not doing enough for them. Kind of like living with an ungrateful teenager in the family.

Carl

Invisible Man

Carl,
The junior guys voted yes to a POS contract to save as much of your pension as possible. They did not say lets divide up there DB plan and give it to the junior guys. You still have $ in your frozen DB plan. It is not as much as promised. But it's more then 50% right? You make it sound like you are getting nothing.The junior guys could say the same thing to you about gratitude.

You also mentioned a sense of entitlement? You said you will get about 50%, I'm going to get about 37%. I think the contract says they will try to get us all as close to 50% as possible. If they give you more $ like you want, I will get less then 37%. How is that fair? Who did you say had a sense of entitlement?

I have no sense of entitlement, nor am I greedy. And I have given this a lot of thought and think if you are going to get 50%+, I should get close to 50% also. Don't you?
IM

Carl Spackler

You've GOT to be kidding! You mean it didn't have anything to do with our own union saying that the next "offer" will be from the bankruptcy judge and it will probably be considerably worse and allow the company to furlough many pilots?

I was laboring under such a misperception. I thought the junior guys were worried about getting furloughed if they didn't vote yes, and all along you were just concerned about my DB plan.

I'm giving this a rest with you IM. It serves no purpose. It is what it is.

Carl

Invisible Man

"be considerably worse and allow the company to furlough many pilots?"
and dump the pensions.

I was going to say the same thing Carl. It's amazing, I agree with all of your other post. And actually enjoy watching you pick apart some of the most inaccurate ones. But we are going to have to agree we disagree.
Best of luck to all of us!
IM

sailingfun

Skyone, You need to get a lawyer and go after the company. They paid the other pilots in your situation quite a bit more then you got. The other pilots received the 50% lump plus between 100 and 120,000 from the MPP and a claim payout in Delta stock to offset some of the annuity loss. Most ended up in the 65 to 70% range on retirement. That is far more then most deadzoners will see. You should be getting something from the PBGC also. A friend almost exactly your age is getting 900 a month. Not much but it helps.

Eric Stratton

Carl it sucks that you guys can't take a lum sum. I once met someone who divorced his wife because that was the only way to get his frozen pension. Surprisingly they were remarried a few months later and with his full pension.