slowplay

*** is that?

Big airplanes whose total premerger compensation (including qol items) pay less than smaller airplanes?

Airplanes in the desert or headed that way?

Only airplanes that fly through Narita? What are they when they go to Amsterdam?

Or conceptual airplanes with unknown delivery dates due to design issues and an IAM strike that are overweight, underpowered, underranged, and about the same size as a B767?

We've transitioned from "premium widebody flying" to "super premium widebody flying" in the NWA argument for category protections AND date of hire.

I sure hope the 3 wise men are able to force a fair and equitable list, but the NWA proposal logically finishes at the 24 arbitration Roberts award. Red, Green, Blue and Black, one big happy family...In the words of Rodney King, "why can't we all just get along?" If the NWA brief is our future, this arbitration is going to be a painful read...

Free Bird

Oh.........

I wouldn't get too wound up on it. Hopefully the "wise men" as you put it will put out a fair list.

If the NWA (ALPA) really want category protections then hopefully they will also want base protections to go along with it. They need to be careful what they ask for. They could just shoot their younger guys and gals in the foot for a l o n g time by asking for these things.

Imo, the NWA MEC will ask for the world, they have nothing to lose. One could argue that arbitration was the goal all along. Honestly, I don't blame them.

I wish DALPA would of played a little less nice or not started negotiations so close to the final result that (both sides) know is a probable outcome.

Hey, it's out of our hands we ALL just have to accept the results, regardless if we like them or not. Hopefully both sides will be upset, then we will have a fair list!

caddis

Your right Slowplay. We NWA guys should just roll over and get stapled on the bottom of your list. You saved us from a fate worse than death by this merger. Why should our guys try and protect jobs...how selfish.

Both sides came out swinging.

I could just as easily take stabs at Delta's side of us parking 9's, even though we are staffed properly. In fact we are staffed short by 350+ pilots according to the new contract. What credit do we get for that, some phantom pilots perhaps.

Or scoffing at the 747-200's. Yes they are old but guess what the ones running the mil charters are the highest, I will say it again, the highest revenue airplane at either airline. The gov't pays the gas bill and a per person boarding fee for the charters.

Also aren't the MD-80's getting a little up there in age, what about the 767s.

There are warts and roses at each company. It is the job of both sides to fight for their jobs. Let's just get through this and hope we can come out the other side on the same team with limited infighting.

Here is my bet on what happens for the SLI. It will be date of hire with a 5 year fence.

Now if both sides agree to no fences then it will be a straight ratio. 7 Delta 5 NWA.

There will be people that ***** at either one of these from both sides but they are probably the most "fair"

slowplay

Show me anywhere in the Delta brief where there is a request for you to "just roll over and get stapled." Nice hyperbole. In less than two months "your guys" are going to be "our guys." One would think they could craft an argument a little different than the Roberts award that has worked so well for NWA.

Really? Then why the furlough mitigation letter?

That's great that two airplanes out of your 13 aircraft fleet generate that kind of revenue. Aren't 3 of your main deck freighters being parked by your management this year? Is the Delta brief incorrect in pointing out the loss of your most lucrative cargo contract?

Yup, but not nearly as old as you think. The oldest ER is a year older than your oldest 744. The newest ER was delivered in 2002. The MD-88's are 1986-1999 aircraft as well. Those years match up pretty well with your A320 fleet, don't they.

We can do the tit for tat all day and get nowhere. Bottom line is that we're merging and we will be one company in two short months, whether or not the pilot groups get along. It would be better, imo, if the debate was fact based rather than adjective based. Super Premium is what?

Yup, and the conduct of each party during this stressful process will define our ability to come out the other side.

If it goes DOH, the fences better be a heckuva lot longer than 5 years. I want the full benefit of the New Delta Roberts award, so we can develop our own team of annual arbitration specialists. It has worked so well in the past.

Man, this is looking like a AAA/AWA case all over again. What were the results of that one?

Scoop

I don't think anyone wants the NW guys to "roll over" and anyone who actually wanted NW guys to be stapled would be an idiot asking for a hostile work environment for the rest of their career. How about a fair list for both sides?
On the other hand I have to give it to the NW Bubba's - "Super Premium" widebody flying?" By the end of the negotiations it has the potential to be "Super- Duper, Extra Special, Premium Widebody Flying." I just hope they dont "double dog dare us" at anytime during the hearings. You guys are truly the adjective Kings.

Scoop

Free Bird

The ironic thing about that statement is that the Delta MEC never proposed any type of "Staple". According to a DAL MEC negotiator, NWA proposed a ratio that "ran out" of NWA pilots with 3,000 Delta pilots left at the bottom.

DOH........ That's fine, we won't see any NWA folks anyway because of your HUGE fences that you guys want up?

I'm prepared to accept anything the arbitrators rule, there is no other choice. DOH is the best thing for NWA folks........we get it. Again, I applaud your MEC for attempting to "staple" us bottom 1/3 of the Delta list. Your MEC is just trying to get the best deal for their pilots. Understood. Im just frusterated that our MEC seems hell bent on a "fair" list. If you guys would do it to us. Why shouldn't we try and do it to you.

Nothing personal folks, it's just business.

slowplay

I'm guessing you were home or private schooled and didn't get much time on the playground....

Show me a place in history where that tactic has worked well in the long run!

Superpilot92

has it occurred to you guys that NWA is asking for DOH because they want something in the middle of what DAL wants. Choose opposites and meet in the middle is the game that is likely being played. Bottom line is its out of our hands so lets try not to get to worked up in the BS. Cheers

slowplay

Nah, we're all virgins here with no experience in this "game." btw, are you off probation yet, Super? If so, congrats!

Looks more to me like NWA's team (which is the same team that USAirways East used) is repeating that playbook, and the Delta team (which America West used) has a modified version of that book.

How'd that one turn out? Was there a middle, or did the AAA unrealistic expectations turn out poorly for them?

Repeating history, learning from it, and all that stuff might play here....

Free Bird

Nice personal shot there. That's fine.

My point is this. Both MEC's have a responsibility to their members to get the best deal for their respective pilot groups. It's nothing personal.

This SL is permanent my friend. If the NWA folks come out of this with an advantage (something close to DOH) I know you will sleep well at night knowing that we played nice.