20 October SLI transcript
10-21-2008, 02:18 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: gear pulling specialist 75/76
Posts: 77
Originally Posted by Check Essential
For you maybe. Not for NWA history buffs. And tomorrow will be SPECTACULAR !
There's going to be another little nostalgia movie. Just like Day 1.
This time talking about "super premium". VERY emotional stuff.
An elderly 747 captain is interviewed in Japan and gets all misty-eyed as a classic whale flies past Mt. Fuji at sunset.
As the shot fades to black he slowly bows his head. A tiny tear rolls down his cheek and he softly, almost imperceptibly, whispers, "Date of hire".
Ever see "Old Yeller"? This is better.
There won't be a dry-eyed arbitrator in the house.
There's going to be another little nostalgia movie. Just like Day 1.
This time talking about "super premium". VERY emotional stuff.
An elderly 747 captain is interviewed in Japan and gets all misty-eyed as a classic whale flies past Mt. Fuji at sunset.
As the shot fades to black he slowly bows his head. A tiny tear rolls down his cheek and he softly, almost imperceptibly, whispers, "Date of hire".
Ever see "Old Yeller"? This is better.
There won't be a dry-eyed arbitrator in the house.
Priceless!
I can just picture the arbitrators sniffling and dabbing at the tears, while the DAL guys roll their eyes and check their wristwatches.
10-21-2008, 04:00 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Maybe............but,
I sorta agree with you that it wasn't exactly a page turner was it? Makes me wonder if something else might be in the works? My extensive jury duty experience (one) had the day going into the parties reaching a settlement as real slow and boring. But, then again why the closed session? Don't know.
But, to the young Delta young guys that just want to see us get our butts handed to us, I'll remind you that the history you just read is going to become your history too. You'll need the Narita info (from the exNWA VP/hired gun) to put that United guy in his place at the Jet Lag.
Yup, soon you'll be able to say you work for the first company into Asia and actually your dads started (via wet lease) JAL.
Ferd
History Professor
I sorta agree with you that it wasn't exactly a page turner was it? Makes me wonder if something else might be in the works? My extensive jury duty experience (one) had the day going into the parties reaching a settlement as real slow and boring. But, then again why the closed session? Don't know.
But, to the young Delta young guys that just want to see us get our butts handed to us, I'll remind you that the history you just read is going to become your history too. You'll need the Narita info (from the exNWA VP/hired gun) to put that United guy in his place at the Jet Lag.
Yup, soon you'll be able to say you work for the first company into Asia and actually your dads started (via wet lease) JAL.
Ferd
History Professor
10-21-2008, 06:04 PM
#15
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by newKnow
First, you should watch where you use the term "exactly."
There is no place in the entire 234 page document where the word "Mesa" appears.
What you are refering to is page 112 of the document and page 869 of the transcrips. Apparently, you guys think there are a few pilots on the list who aren't flying and have never been trained.
What I would guess is that there are a few people on the list who are part of the Mesaba (Not Mesa) flow thru agreement.
I am sure you guys will assert that they do not belong on the list and we will assert that they do. Not exactly groundbreaking.
There is no place in the entire 234 page document where the word "Mesa" appears.
What you are refering to is page 112 of the document and page 869 of the transcrips. Apparently, you guys think there are a few pilots on the list who aren't flying and have never been trained.
What I would guess is that there are a few people on the list who are part of the Mesaba (Not Mesa) flow thru agreement.
I am sure you guys will assert that they do not belong on the list and we will assert that they do. Not exactly groundbreaking.
You got it.
IF there is a MESABA guy on the list but still at Mesaba its probably for "operational necessity" at Mesaba. Most of the Mesaba (around 8-12 i think) flowthroughs were given spots in class and numbers and came over as soon as mesaba released them. There were 3 technically in my class but only one guy was actually there on day 1. The other 2 were coming in a month or 2 but the ones that were needed for "operational necessity" were given their earned spots in our class and on the list. IF there are 1 or 2 that havent been trained here yet its because of underlying flowthrough technicalities i guess. Point is, the mesaba flowthrough guys are just as much NWA pilots as everyone else on the list. Thats my understanding on the whole 8-12 mesaba flowthroughs anyway.
10-21-2008, 06:28 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by beer
Better than that was the fact that they called NWA out for voting for a ratio type list on the last 2 mergers because DOH was not fair,
Then, found out that NWA has pilots on the seniority list that are not even at NWA, they are at Mesa and have never been to training yet at NWA.
Also, Delta has about twice as many INTL block hours than NWA(that was a surprise)
There will also be discussion of the early out program by Delta. They will prove that had the 65 rule been in place, there would not have been that many early outs.
Then, found out that NWA has pilots on the seniority list that are not even at NWA, they are at Mesa and have never been to training yet at NWA.
Also, Delta has about twice as many INTL block hours than NWA(that was a surprise)
There will also be discussion of the early out program by Delta. They will prove that had the 65 rule been in place, there would not have been that many early outs.
10-21-2008, 06:55 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I am confused about this Delta early out program. The last Delta early out program was in the nineties. There has been nothing in the last 10 years. Why do NWA pilots keep referring to a non existant program? Many pilot retired early however NWA pilots have the option to go early at NWA. This is starting to become a urban legand at NWA like the myth NW pilots would loose pay because Delta pilots fly fewer hours.
10-21-2008, 09:26 PM
#18
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Point is, the mesaba flowthrough guys are just as much NWA pilots as everyone else on the list. Thats my understanding on the whole 8-12 mesaba flowthroughs anyway.
If the flowthrough pilot had not been to NWA training yet I would say that the jury is still out on that issue. How is he (if currently flying for Mesaba) as much a NW Pilot as the old salts like Carl or Ferd or yourself? Bottom line is 8-12 guys will not affect the outcome much, but if true it does present an awkward position to defend.
Scoop
10-21-2008, 10:41 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by Scoop
Super,
If the flowthrough pilot had not been to NWA training yet I would say that the jury is still out on that issue. How is he (if currently flying for Mesaba) as much a NW Pilot as the old salts like Carl or Ferd or yourself? Bottom line is 8-12 guys will not affect the outcome much, but if true it does present an awkward position to defend.
Scoop
If the flowthrough pilot had not been to NWA training yet I would say that the jury is still out on that issue. How is he (if currently flying for Mesaba) as much a NW Pilot as the old salts like Carl or Ferd or yourself? Bottom line is 8-12 guys will not affect the outcome much, but if true it does present an awkward position to defend.
Scoop
You are right. It really doesn't matter. But, if NWA "hired" these pilots and gave them class dates, then subsequently required them to stay at Mesaba, those pilots have a legitimate claim to be included on the NWA seniority list, just as if they had been in class and completed training.
Even if you don't feel that they are "real" NWA pilots, what do you think the alternative is? You have 8-12 Mesaba pilots who are hired at NWA, but thru no fault of their own are required to stay at Mesaba. Either NWA ALPA can:
1. Give them their rightful places on the seniority list and explain it to the arbitrators, or;
2. Leave them off the seniority list and get sued -- big time.
Also, if you were one of the 8-12 Mesaba pilots, what would you want them to do?
Not so awkward when you think of it like that, is it?
New K Now
10-22-2008, 04:21 AM
#20
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by newKnow
Scoop,
You are right. It really doesn't matter. But, if NWA "hired" these pilots and gave them class dates, then subsequently required them to stay at Mesaba, those pilots have a legitimate claim to be included on the NWA seniority list, just as if they had been in class and completed training.
Even if you don't feel that they are "real" NWA pilots, what do you think the alternative is? You have 8-12 Mesaba pilots who are hired at NWA, but thru no fault of their own are required to stay at Mesaba. Either NWA ALPA can:
1. Give them their rightful places on the seniority list and explain it to the arbitrators, or;
2. Leave them off the seniority list and get sued -- big time.
Also, if you were one of the 8-12 Mesaba pilots, what would you want them to do?
Not so awkward when you think of it like that, is it?
New K Now
You are right. It really doesn't matter. But, if NWA "hired" these pilots and gave them class dates, then subsequently required them to stay at Mesaba, those pilots have a legitimate claim to be included on the NWA seniority list, just as if they had been in class and completed training.
Even if you don't feel that they are "real" NWA pilots, what do you think the alternative is? You have 8-12 Mesaba pilots who are hired at NWA, but thru no fault of their own are required to stay at Mesaba. Either NWA ALPA can:
1. Give them their rightful places on the seniority list and explain it to the arbitrators, or;
2. Leave them off the seniority list and get sued -- big time.
Also, if you were one of the 8-12 Mesaba pilots, what would you want them to do?
Not so awkward when you think of it like that, is it?
New K Now
Correct, and to be clear only about 8-12ish TOTAL mesaba guys have flowed through. Most have been through training and were released by the NWA owned mesaba and are online at NWA. IF there are some that were asked to stay at mesaba for "operational necessity" or something along those lines it likely was because thats what NWA told them they were going to do. I dont know the specifics on the rules and regs between NWA/mesaba etc. Point is IF there are a few that hold legal seniority numbers but havent begun class yet, that number is maybe 1 or 2 people not 8-12.
Maybe a mesaba pilot can jump on hera and fill us in but most of the flowthroughs are currently online and flying at NWA.
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