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Old 10-31-2008, 05:45 PM   #151  
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Originally Posted by Cogf16 View Post
Carl,

My opinion only, but I think there is NO WAY the arbitors or our teams would sign off on a 10 yr. fence. I think that RA would just not accept it if it somehow got to him. A fence that long illustrates how "out there" DOH is.

Cog
Nobody knows how they will rule. But understand that RA has no say in this matter. The SLI acceptance letter of agreement and the new JPWA over-wrote many items of the former DAL PWA. RA cannot refuse to accept the SLI that is produced by arbitration or negotiated settlement.

Carl
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Old 10-31-2008, 06:12 PM   #152  
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The fence is so we can enjoy our retirements like you enjoyed yours.

PS
Fences are very common to mergers, its not "out there".
Capt.,
Do you think RA is going to accept massive 10 yr. fences which complicate his ability to efficiently deploy his aircraft AND crews where marketing deems best? Yes, he has the power to reject any SLI that unduly harms the efficient deployment of his aircraft and crews. Finally, what retirements are you referring to? I believe its been shown that only a few hundred Delta guys who retired early 4-6 yrs. ago would still be on the property. An urban myth. The fences are in place to try an manipulate the DOH proposal into something that 2 out of 3 arbitors would agree on. At what point do we stop looking forward as previous carriers and take the good with the bad as one company? This has all been hashed and rehashed but future orders and future aircraft retirements being treated as "uncertain future events" could really negatively impact pre-Delta pilots at the top and the bottom of the list but pre-NWA guys want full credit for their retirements in the form of DOH and large fences. There has got to be a better way. Relative position/seniority with adjustments is more fair and easier to adjust, imo.

BTW what is ...............?
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:49 AM   #153  
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I do not think that two out of three arbitrators are going to award anything near a 10 year fence.
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Old 11-01-2008, 06:45 AM   #154  
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Originally Posted by capncrunch View Post
The fence is so we can enjoy our retirements like you enjoyed yours.

PS
Fences are very common to mergers, its not "out there".
Urban myth that the early retirements have much if anything to do with the current seniority if the DAL pilots. It matters not how many times you hear this, or how much proof you are shown, you will still believe otherwise so why am I wasting my time? We "enjoy" our "seniority" now because of massive international expansion... And you want to enjoy our expansion at our expense without being responsible for the POTENTIAL (and I hope the 9s are here for 25 more years) fleet reduction due to DC9s... IT's not up to us anymore anyway, and I truly welcome all the former NWA brothers aboard. BTW... do ya'll have many female pilots over there?

Oh... and the plural of ya'll is "all ya'll". If ya wanna blend in, do not say you all... dead giveaway... you've been warned
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Old 11-01-2008, 09:55 AM   #155  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
Nobody knows how they will rule. But understand that RA has no say in this matter. The SLI acceptance letter of agreement and the new JPWA over-wrote many items of the former DAL PWA. RA cannot refuse to accept the SLI that is produced by arbitration or negotiated settlement.

Carl
I disagree, RA can refuse the list by proving to the arbitrators that the SLI award causes great financial harm of hardship to the corporation. Note the word "great" not "minor."
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Old 11-01-2008, 11:25 AM   #156  
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What?!!!!! Have I just been transported to a parallel universe?!!! Am I now Capt. Kirk again? One NW guy disagreeing with another? Where's my smellin' salts!!!!!! Oh yeah, and I'm 20/30 years younger!!!!

Denny/Kirk
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Old 11-01-2008, 11:46 AM   #157  
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What?!!!!! Have I just been transported to a parallel universe?!!! Am I now Capt. Kirk again? One NW guy disagreeing with another? Where's my smellin' salts!!!!!! Oh yeah, and I'm 20/30 years younger!!!!

Denny/Kirk
Nosmo is probably right. It's been a while since I read that letter. The term "great financial harm" might indeed be in there.

Carl
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Old 11-01-2008, 02:23 PM   #158  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
Nosmo is probably right. It's been a while since I read that letter. The term "great financial harm" might indeed be in there.
Carl
Actually, the phrase is "significantly increase the company's costs".

For the purposes of the Delta/Northwest Merger only and notwithstanding Section 1 D. 8. b. 1) of the PWA, the Company will accept the integrated seniority list established by the Association, provided that none of the conditions and restrictions therein 1) require a system flush whereby pilots may displace any other pilots from the latter’s position; 2) require a pilot to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g. differential pay for a position not flown); 3) bar a pilot who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, is in the process of completing or who has completed qualification training for a new position (e.g., B-777 Captain or A-319 First Officer) from being assigned to the position for which he has been trained, regardless of his relative standing on the integrated seniority list; or 4) significantly increase the Company's costs.
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Old 11-01-2008, 09:23 PM   #159  
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Actually, the phrase is "significantly increase the company's costs".

For the purposes of the Delta/Northwest Merger only and notwithstanding Section 1 D. 8. b. 1) of the PWA, the Company will accept the integrated seniority list established by the Association, provided that none of the conditions and restrictions therein 1) require a system flush whereby pilots may displace any other pilots from the latter’s position; 2) require a pilot to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g. differential pay for a position not flown); 3) bar a pilot who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, is in the process of completing or who has completed qualification training for a new position (e.g., B-777 Captain or A-319 First Officer) from being assigned to the position for which he has been trained, regardless of his relative standing on the integrated seniority list; or 4) significantly increase the Company's costs.
Check,

What document is this clip from?

Carl
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:11 AM   #160  
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The 767-400 and 777 are the only DAL FO seats that are protected in the NWA proposal, so yeah, I guess that's what we're calling super extra premium. I hope we never get A380's.
If NWA did get the A380, then the term "super" would apply. Even ICAO agrees.

The ICAO also advised pilots to use the suffix "Super" when communicating with air traffic control to distinguish the A380 from other "Heavy" aircraft.[95]

Airbus A380 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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